Ajarn Ed: Explaining America to Thai University Students [S7.E58]

Greg 00:00:32 Sawat dee krap. And welcome to the Bangkok Podcast. My name is Greg Jorgensen, a Canadian who came to Thailand in 2001 with an idea of maybe working as a bartender on a beach, but instead ended up teaching English to third graders. Thankfully, I was still able to bartend for myself at home.

Ed 00:00:49 For sure. For sure.

Greg 00:00:50 Big step.

Ed 00:00:51 And I am Ed Knuth, an American who came to Thailand on a one year teaching contract 24 years ago, fell in love with taking years to finally have Thailand totally figured out, only to find out the next day that I know absolutely nothing. So I never left.

Greg 00:01:07 Which philosopher said that the only true smart man is the person who knows he knows nothing or something like that.

Ed 00:01:12 I believe that was Socrates.

Greg 00:01:15 yes. That young, that young knave. I've heard of him before.

Ed 00:01:19 Thailand is weird in this respect. That, I mean, this is kind of why we do the podcast, but I do reach these stages where I feel like, wow, I finally understand this place.

Ed 00:01:30 And then, you know, something happens the next day and I'll be like, what? Like, you know, the Thai government, the Thai government did what? Or or this or this Thai person did what, you know.

Greg 00:01:39 Keeps you on your toes.

Ed 00:01:40 That's right. All right. We want to give big thanks to all of our patrons who support the show. Patrons get every episode a day early. Behind the scenes photos of our interviews a heads up send questions to upcoming guests and access to our discord server to chat with me, Greg, and other listeners around the world. Best of Best of all, patrons also get an unscripted, uncensored bonus episode every week where we riff on current events and Bangkok topics on this week's bonus show. We chatted about my further adventures on Facebook Marketplace, dealing with some scams, some music recommendations for those who like traditional Thai chillout music playing in the background, and Greg's excitement over finally getting AIS to install fiber internet in his condo building, despite it first being available over ten years ago.

Ed 00:02:28 Better late than never, as I say, to learn how to become a patron and get all this good stuff. Plus full access to over 700 bonus and regular back episodes. Click this button at the top of our website.

Greg 00:02:40 Can't wait to surf the entire information highway information superhighway. Sorry, I should say.

Ed 00:02:45 I only got it five years ago.

Greg 00:02:48 Well, yeah. Still feel really behind the curve. Can't wait for all the new surfing I'll be able to do.

Ed 00:02:54 Thanks.

Greg 00:02:55 Yeah. Also, don't forget, if you listen to us on Spotify, you can now hear all of our bonus shows there as well. If you're a patron, simply link your Patreon account to your Spotify account. Add our new feed titled Bangkok Podcast Badass Patrons only to hear the regular and bonus shows in the same place. All righty then. Well, in this episode, we are going to dive deep into the psyche of the average Thai university student. From the POV of an esteemed educator in this case, editor. Thank you.

Greg 00:03:21 I think you are. You are esteemed. Now, for those who don't know. As main Gig is explaining American and Western culture to his students, which seems pretty straightforward to anyone from those countries or cultures, but it's actually quite the opposite. For instance, most of us try to learn about Thailand by taking what we know about our culture and adapting it into Thailand. But for Ed, it's the opposite. He's got to take Western culture and view it through the lens of Thai culture, which can be quite a challenge and a little bit disorienting. Even simple things like volunteering an answer to a question, or disagreeing with someone older than you are hard to explain when your native cultural identity frowns upon those things. Not only that, but many of his students will soon head into the US for work, so it also tries to prepare them for the inevitable culture shock. So we thought it'd be fun to talk about how you distill this issue in a way that barely out of their teens, Thai people would understand, and what types of questions they ask as they grapple with these issues.

Greg 00:04:17 I can't even imagine what this must be like, man. Just trying to explain something as insane as.

Ed 00:04:23 As the United States.

Greg 00:04:24 As.

Ed 00:04:25 United as the United States two.

Greg 00:04:27 Times. And I'm not even American. So I mean, I'm close enough to understand it, but you must have just a special, special relationship with it.

Ed 00:04:35 Well, Canadians are looking over at the fence going, what in the hell is going on down there.

Greg 00:04:39 Building that ice wall? Real quick, man. Game of Thrones.

Ed 00:04:42 That's great. Well, it is kind of interesting where I've ended up because obviously I was in Thailand for a long time before I started doing the podcast and, so I, I've had this problem of explaining the United States to Thai students for a long time. You know, it's my job. It's literally my career, right? and, I think part of the reason I, I, I liked or, you know, stayed doing the podcast is that it's, it's basically the inverse. So I'm kind of I feel like I'm in between.

Ed 00:05:13 You know, so when we do this, you and I are trying to explain, like, the tiny amount of wisdom we've managed to, to, to to pull together, to, to other people. but it's kind of the inverse. So it's like, in a way, I, I like it now. I feel like I'm in between in between both cultures. So, obviously I teach a lot of different classes and it's academics. I don't want to talk about that stuff. Instead, I want to talk about more kind of practical things. I, I tell my students so they're prepared. You know, a lot of my students do, work, travel stuff over the summer. You know, where they, they go work like in a hotel or an amusement park in the States, and then they get like two weeks to travel. You know, they do that kind of stuff over the summer. So they might, you know, they might study their freshman year British and American studies and then and then they go to the States for two and a half months.

Ed 00:06:05 So a lot of them are, you know, going fairly quickly. And then of course, there's a larger issue that a lot of them would like to get master's degrees, either in their states or Britain or work for international companies. So, you know, my program is is designed to prepare Thais for like the international world, you know. Right, right. To to interact with people from around the world speaking English. And most of the international world is fairly westernized. You know, depending on who you go to work for. so I'm going to start with just, three very practical things that I always try to tell my students. Just just so they're ready, even if they're taking a holiday in the States. the first thing I remind them is compared to Thailand. The United States is gigantic. So all of all of Thailand, from from top to bottom, almost fits the size of Texas. It doesn't quite fit, but the whole country basically fits inside of one state. And obviously Texas is a pretty big state, but the United States is just an enormous country compared to Thailand.

Ed 00:07:09 And Thailand is not even that small. It's just the United States is huge. And I like to point out to them that it's not just that it's geographically huge, is that it's very diverse. So we have, many different regions. You know, the East Coast is not the state of the Midwest is not the same as the South, and New Orleans is not the same as the rest of the South. And the West Coast is different. And like the the Great West, like Montana, Wyoming, that's a different planet. You know, when I drove, when I drove through, I took one of my I've driven I've driven across the country several times. And when I first drove through, you know, those states like Montana, Wyoming, you really feel like you're on another planet. You know, I went to the black, the Black Hills, which I won in South Dakota. and, so and so it's a little bit weird because of the size and diversity. The US is actually a little bit hard to generalize about.

Ed 00:08:05 I mean, so it's kind of my job to, to teach American culture, but actually American culture is very diverse. You know, my students, you know, some of my students have been exchange students, in high school for either a semester or a year. Okay. And they have very different experiences. Like some of them are there, like an exchange student in Houston or they're or they're an exchange student in a small town in upstate New York.

Greg 00:08:35 So even if those two students got together. Hey, what was your experience? What can you tell me about life in Houston? Like, nothing you could use.

Ed 00:08:42 Yeah. Upstate New York is freezing cold. So if they're in Houston, in the city, in the city or close to the city. They didn't. They didn't experience any cold weather. Right. It's going. It's going to be mostly it's going to be totally different racial mix. some of my students end up actually, I think this is a little bit of a scam. but a lot of a lot of exchange, a lot of families that accept, exchange students are hardcore conservative Christians.

Ed 00:09:07 To me, it's a little it's a little bit sketchy, right? But they're more likely to bring foreign students in from Asia. And it's it's a little bit of a proselytizing proselytizing, a little bit reverse missionaries. Yeah, exactly. That's a good point. Reverse missionaries. It sounds like a sex position, so, you know that's not what you meant.

Greg 00:09:24 That's not why you come to me and I'll brainwash you.

Ed 00:09:28 but so they so they have wildly different experiences. And so I always want to tell them, like, you know, if, you know, if a student has a negative experience, I'm always like, hey, that's just that one place you're at, like, you were in the South or you were here, and I do. And when I go back, this something that strikes me, you know, that the US is different. You know, Thailand does have some diversity. It does. you know, we talked about it when we did our show with Phil. Sure.

Ed 00:09:57 It does. But I do think it's less. You know, I it's not the same. so we have regionalism, and then, of course, we do have the urban rural thing, which Thai students tend to understand. So American cities are totally different from the American countryside, and that's actually totally different from the suburbs, right? It's a completely different, completely different life. Yeah.

Greg 00:10:20 When I when I first came here, I remember I was on a trip, with, with some Brits and I think I mentioned this on the show before, but one of them asked me how long it takes to travel across Canada on a train. And I didn't even have an answer. I was like, I don't know. Like a week. Right. Yeah. They they.

Ed 00:10:34 Could.

Greg 00:10:35 They're like, what? Yeah. First of all, why would you even do that? They couldn't comprehend it, you know.

Ed 00:10:40 Yeah. When I told my students, I drove across the US and it took three and a half days, they were because they don't.

Ed 00:10:47 Again, this is why I point this out. It's like this is kind of like just basic facts you have to understand about the US, like just right. American Studies 101. Number one, it's huge and diverse, and it's actually difficult to generalize about because of that.

Greg 00:11:01 I think it's kind of when you explain, like living in Europe to an American, you say like, oh, I drove half an hour and I crossed through three different countries. You're like, that's right. What, what?

Ed 00:11:10 Yeah, I mean, Europe is certainly more diverse because of the languages and culture, but it is a little bit like that, you know, I mean, some states, I guess you could say are similar, but man, there's it's just not the same when you're driving, when you're traveling. the second thing, which is really important, and again, practical advice is I warn my students about violent crime. Now this is tricky because this is tricky because in general, I think the odds you'll experience violent crime are low.

Ed 00:11:37 So I do think I would actually just generally say America is a safe country. It's not like going to, you know, I guess, can we just talk about a South Africa or, you know, it's it's that you're you're very likely to get kidnapped in the US, you know, for ransom, you know. So I do think the US is a safe country. But the problem is depending on where you are, like neighborhood wise, or in this city or on this street at the wrong time, it can be very unsafe. So I, you know, I always tell my students, at night, be very careful where you go and make sure you talk to an American or your concierge or your cousin. And don't just go wandering, you know, because I, I wander around Bangkok at night, late at night with my expensive camera. Fearlessly. Right. Because I've lived. Because I've lived here a long time. I would never do that in Cleveland. Never. It would be insane.

Greg 00:12:33 Did you. Do you ever get any questions about this? Like. Like school shootings. Mall shootings?

Ed 00:12:38 Yeah. No, we talked about it in a couple classes. Yeah. Know the whole. Yeah.

Greg 00:12:41 Have you been scared or has it ever turned any of them off?

Ed 00:12:46 Yes. It's funny you brought that up because after after Trump got shot, you know, in the ear or whatever, a student came up to me and said, said, I used to want to go to the States. I don't think I want to go anymore. She said something like, I think she said, it's crazy over there. And I was like, what kind of, you know? You know, this is the this is the general point. So I you know, it's a tricky thing to get, right. I think the US is generally a safe country, but you you have to pay attention to where you go when. So you you can't you can't turn your mind off and just wander. Especially at night, especially in big cities.

Ed 00:13:27 I mean, there's still crime in, in rural areas, but especially in big cities. and then the third and then the third thing that I just repeat over and over again is how expensive medical care is, and that you should never You should not step one foot in the US without good health insurance. And I think most people know this. And I've seen shows, about I think this was kind of throwing the fight over Obamacare. And I remember seeing a documentary about Canadians coming to the US and, a couple of them getting burned. You know, it's like they they don't know, like they go to the US and they think it's like Canada.

Greg 00:14:03 Well dumbasses.

Ed 00:14:05 Yeah. And then they get injured and it's like $250,000. It's like their life savings. Yeah. You know, so I, you know, I think most students know this and most travel companies, but man, if you are in the States without any kind of health insurance and you get injured, you are in for a shock.

Greg 00:14:22 Yeah. Up, up. Shit creek, as they say. Yeah.

Ed 00:14:25 For real? Yeah. Yeah. You know, and then, you know, I'll give practical advice like that, but then I'll tie that in with more, you know, academic issues. Like why. So why why is the US different from Canada or Denmark or Sweden is Another topic. Yeah. so that's the practical stuff. And then, even though I don't teach culture, I'm not a culture guy. it just comes up. It's tangential to a lot of other stuff I teach. And it also is also kind of practical advice. so one thing I stress is that the United States has a very legalistic culture. This is something that I it blows my mind when I go back home. I'm an American lawyer. I was a lawyer for five years before I bailed. and when I go back home and I'm just flipping through about 500 channels on my system TV, right? I can't I can't believe how many law shows there are.

Ed 00:15:21 Like, there's so many. There's shows about judges, lawyers, cops like CSI, FBI. It's it's it's. And then you flip, flip over to the news and it's the Supreme Court today announced this. You know, interesting. We just have a legalistic culture. And this ties into, you know why I say on the show that I'm a rule of law guy because I'm American and I'm an American lawyer, and ties do not think that way. they they're not used to all laws being enforced. I mean, even in the US, not all laws are being enforced, but they're just used to, like, general flexibility about rules. And they're used to. And they're used to. I'll just say it. They're used to being able to bribe the way out of a, out of a lot of stuff. And so, you know, I always, you know, when I, you know, because I teach an introduction to law class to freshmen, and, you know, I always tell them, like, if you are in the United States, do not try to bribe a police officer.

Ed 00:16:21 You know, it's like I mean, it's so basic. But that's the problem with young people. It's like the it's it's it's that little piece of knowledge that, like, they missed, you know. So I wouldn't, you know, I'm, you know, or like the Canadians who, who missed the fact that they should already know this about the US, but they just missed this fact.

Greg 00:16:39 You know what it reminds me of? A years ago, I was out with a with a Thai friend and I, we saw some, some liquid on the floor in a supermarket, in a grocery store. And I made some a joke about like, oh, God, if you slipped, too bad. If we're not in the US, we could sue them and retire. And they were like, what do you mean? And I was like, well, Western countries, especially America, like you could.

Ed 00:16:56 That's right.

Greg 00:16:57 For sure. Slip a slip on this milk. You sue the store and they're like, why? And I was like, well, it's the store's responsibility to clean it up.

Greg 00:17:03 And they said, well, yeah, but you slipped in it. You're dumb enough to slip in it. Right, right. Yeah, but it's not my responsibility to keep the store. And then you go back and forth, and they were like, it's a stupid system.

Ed 00:17:13 It's a very good example. And I mean, I this is just become more when I go back there, it becomes very apparent to me. Right. Even watching American football, you know, it, it stops every 45 seconds with either a flag or rule. American football is way more legalistic than than soccer or international football. It's you know, it's is crazy. It's just part of our culture. and the US. And I will stick by this. The US has low corruption. We do have corruption. And anytime there's even a whiff of it, it's a huge story. But the bottom line is, you can't bribe people. It's just not part of our culture. I mean, it's just very rare. Very rare exceptions.

Ed 00:17:55 And this is important for foreigners. You know, foreigners have to know that.

Greg 00:17:59 Yeah. I think you can do it. You can't do it on small levels like the. For your average person, bribery is not really something that happens, but you can do it if you're dealing in the hundreds of millions or billions of dollars. Yeah. You know.

Ed 00:18:11 Yeah. Yeah. Only the rich are the only ones that can bribe Congress and change the law. Yeah. No doubt, no doubt about that. A couple other things are almost the inverse of what we learn living here. So I try to point out, you know, the basic facts about Western culture, that it's really based on the individual and not the group. And in general, individuals are trying to stand out and be special as opposed to fit in. And it's a tricky thing because all of us want to fit in to some extent. We want to have friends. But the West plays much more of an emphasis on being your own person, being an individual, having your own opinions.

Ed 00:18:49 And, you know, I've talked before about, you know, one of my biggest problems with my students is that they just don't have their own opinions. Because.

Greg 00:18:56 Right, right.

Ed 00:18:56 Right right right. No, no, no one ever taught them how to have their own opinion. And when I have exchange students, for example, right now I've got several French exchange students, same age as my students, my Thai students, and they just talk. That's the difference. Like, they just raise their hand and say, what about this? Or I read this, or what do you think about this? They just talk, you know, it's like they have their own opinions, their own thoughts. and part of my program, you know, one of the goals of our program is I'm trying to turn Thai students into Western students. I mean, it's just we are. That's what we're trying to do. So we're not we're not just Teaching about the West. We're honestly trying to westernized our students, and that's a stated goal.

Ed 00:19:38 So I mean, it's not it's not a trick. It's not brainwashing. We're trying to prepare Thai students to interface with Westerners in either an academic setting or a professional setting. So I'm I'm trying to tell them, like, you have to be able to participate, you know, your boss is going to you know, your boss, your boss in a meeting is going to say, Greg, what do you think? And like, like Thais are like Thais are not ready for that.

Greg 00:20:01 Yeah. This this goes back to the very first thing I always used to teach my high school students when back in the day when I was a teacher, was the handshake, and I would line them all up and and make them shake my hand and introduce themselves. And then I would get up and inevitably say, that was terrible. Only two of you had good handshakes, and I would turn it into like a funny lesson. But that's what I said. When you if you meet a foreigner, especially a Westerner, squeeze that hand, give it two solid pumps and make eye contact.

Greg 00:20:24 That goes a long way.

Ed 00:20:25 So that's good advice. I mean, I don't I haven't done that that specifically, but I it's funny you mentioned that because I talk about the handshake as some kind of a symbol of Western equality as opposed to a bow. Like when you bow, you're putting yourself beneath someone. But a handshake is kind of like an image of equality. And it's kind of tough to get right, because obviously back home we are aware of seniority and we don't treat everyone exactly the same. I mean, you know, you're in a company and you learn, oh, this guy's been around forever. This guy invented that, or that guy is like top dog. And so we don't treat everyone exactly the same. That's ridiculous. but but you are expected to, compete, and and you can't kind of. I think something happens in Thai culture where when you're younger, you just have to show up and pay attention so you're not actually doing nothing. So for for young Thai people, they think their job is to show up and have a good attitude and pay attention and learn, because someday they're going to be the oldest person.

Greg 00:21:32 You know.

Ed 00:21:33 But but that's just not the way the West works. And I remember a story of one of my, This is actually quite a long time ago, but, one of my students, did an exchange program in Sweden, and she said that, she was it was. No, no, it was an exchange program. It was like a summer job or internship where she actually went to Sweden. And it's exactly what I said before. Like the boss, like asked what she thought. Oh, and about something. And she said she didn't. It wasn't just that she didn't. That she didn't have anything to say. It was that she didn't understand why they were asking her.

Greg 00:22:15 Interesting.

Ed 00:22:17 You know, she said, like, I'm only 21. Like, why? Why do they. Why? Why do they want to know what I what I think? And that just shows you the different mindsets. And it's like the bottom line is like older people, you know, in the West, we know that we're clueless and we're out of touch them like we're like, please, not 19 year olds trade me out, you know? Right.

Ed 00:22:37 It's like it's like you're talking to your son, like, because you know, you're losing it. Like he's he's locked in. He's locked into all this stuff that you completely missed. You know.

Greg 00:22:46 We believe the children are our future. But this this ties in with what I was saying on the last week show about how respect is is over you over overrated here because, you know, just because you you it's really hard for ties to to sort of grok the idea that they can earn respect from an older person, even if they're way younger by how they act, how they present themselves.

Ed 00:23:07 Yeah. Yeah. And then I do sometimes talk about the high context, low context thing, which for me was a huge light bulb in understanding Thai culture. So I just assumed that since it was huge for me, it might be huge for them and listeners. Most of you guys have probably heard this already, but, the basic idea is that Asian culture, Thai culture is very high context, which means Thai people are used to gathering a lot of information from social context, and not everything needs to be spelled out in words.

Ed 00:23:37 They figure stuff out and a lot of stuff is left unspoken. But the West is not like that. Like, this ties in with the fact that we're a legalistic culture. Basically what you say and what other people say. It matters way more than it does here. Like here, you can say one thing, but everyone understands you mean something completely different and there's no problem with that. But there's no problem whatsoever. everyone completely understands that you mean the opposite of what you said, but that's just not how the West works. And so I warn my students that, that they should really be focusing on the words and that if they don't understand something, they should ask and to verbalize. Like, I think we're we're just a verbal culture and they should verbalize. And I was very happy because a bunch of my students, do internships after their junior year and before they go. So some of them are working at the US Embassy International companies. And before they start, I give them, like, a little breather.

Ed 00:24:35 And I and I just I tell them I tell them. If you don't understand what's going on, do not sit there and smile. Do not do that. Like as soon as. As soon as you feel lost, like raise your hand or say excuse me and ask. And I. And I tell them, at the end of the summer, I'm going to ask your boss if you ask questions or not. If you were straightforward, if you were straightforward about what you didn't know. Because my, my, my students in class, they always tell me they understand everything. And then the exams are horrible. I'm just like, there's nothing wrong with saying you don't understand something. That's that's why we're here. But. But they just like to. It's the my opinion. It's the everything fine problem or everything's fine. Like, I have no idea what you're talking about, but.

Greg 00:25:21 Do you want to go for dinner? Up to. You know, I want you want you to tell me where we go for dinner.

Ed 00:25:25 Right. Right. what else do I got? well, the other thing is, I think that, that. Okay. You know, people say that the Thai people are shy. This is a tricky. This is a tricky thing. and the way our buddy John puts it, I think he put it. He put it well, is that Americans are guessing Canadians. I'm not sure, but Americans are are much quicker to engage you than Thai people are. So when I this is obviously tough because I don't know what it's like to be a Thai person in Thailand. Like, obviously they're going to engage each other more than they engage foreigner, but it's just, since he put it that way, when I'm back, it's kind of night and day where it's just, you know, I'll be walking towards someone in Walmart and as we approach each other, the person will just say something and I'll say something back. And then we're having like a, you know, a reasonably deep conversation. And I know there's like a language issue here, but I do think it's a cultural thing.

Ed 00:26:35 I think Thai people, they tend to just leave people alone. You know, they think I don't think that they tend to mind your mind, their own business. I really think this is right. I don't think it's only language. I really don't. do you think. Just talk. You know, so I just talk about this idea of, you know, engaging people. and again, I think this ties back into, like, the verbal culture, the the, the low context way we approach things that we want. We want things to be clarified in work.

Greg 00:27:09 Right? That's a really good one. We got to find like a social scientist or a psychologist on here to talk about that in more detail. I'm really interested in learning more about that.

Ed 00:27:17 Well, I am a social scientist, or at least I play one on TV, but basically only when it comes to politics. And so really what I do is like political ideology. That kind of stuff. But this cult, this culture stuff for me is kind of a hobby because, you know, I do it on the podcast and then I'm essentially doing kind of inverse with my students and.

Ed 00:27:37 Well, and, you know, after four years, my students are different. I mean, not every single one of them, but it's definitely a difference. When I read the exams of my juniors and seniors, they're totally different.

Greg 00:27:49 Oh that's good.

Ed 00:27:50 That's good. Freshmen and and at least some students. Not all, but some students. You know, when I see them at graduation, it's just they're different. I mean, you know, I know it's weird to say that I'm westernized in them, and it's not it's not it's not a value judgment. It's not saying, hey, everyone should be westernized. That's not that's not the point. The point is, it's just our mission to prepare them to interface with Westerners. It's just that's that's what we do, right? So it'd be the it's just the same thing we do here. As if Westerners are coming to Thailand. We give them advice about, okay, here's how to survive in Thailand. You know, here's how to figure things out.

Ed 00:28:29 Here's how to understand what's going on.

Greg 00:28:31 I got two questions about about what what your perspective on this. So the first one is why do most of your students want to go to the US versus like Brazil or the UK or Australia? Like what specifically about the US do the one's going there cite as their reason for wanting to go there?

Ed 00:28:49 That's a good question. I mean, my program is British American Studies and there's definitely a mix like some students, really are interested in Britain more than the US. Yeah. And, you know, obviously British stuff sometimes comes up in some of my classes. It just we've got other British agents who teach that stuff. and it's funny. I'm not sure you know what. Okay. When when I interview students who are applying to the program and I asked them a question exactly like this. You know, why do you want to go to Britain or America instead of China or wherever? And they almost always just say something fairly obvious, like, well, Britain and America are powerful.

Ed 00:29:30 Or Britain and America are right or are strong are strong countries. And so it's pretty uninspiring.

Greg 00:29:35 Answer.

Ed 00:29:36 Yeah. It's not it's not some super sophisticated thing. A lot of them are. It's not necessarily that they but most of them would at the minimum would like to travel there. You know, so if you there would be almost no student who would say oh I never want to go. So at the very least they would love to travel and be able to go. But a bunch of them want to study, you know, get like a master's degree. And then some of them do aspire to live there. So I, I've always thought it was a little bit weird to be honest, but so maybe maybe 10% of the students, you know, they, they basically want to be American or British. Like they're like, I'm out of here. I'm out of here, you know?

Greg 00:30:15 Already.

Ed 00:30:16 Yeah. yeah. So. But there's actually not that many of those, you know, where they, where they, where they want to leave Thailand and at least think they're, they're not going to come back.

Ed 00:30:27 There's not that many.

Greg 00:30:28 The second question I want to ask is, and this is something that only occurred to me recently, and I was thinking about it, and there doesn't seem to be a Thai equivalent to, quote unquote, the American dream where anyone can make it anyone. If you just work hard and try and have a few breaks, you can become, you know, super successful. And that's something that's as Westerners that's instilled, you know, deep down, you work hard, you try your best and you'll be a success. In Thailand, it sort of seems more like, you know, you know, you work hard and you support your family and you'll be happy. But see, people sort of seem to be stuck in the same sort of like socioeconomic scale, roughly.

Ed 00:31:07 I mean, I do I do talk about the idea of the American dream in class and whether America really is the land of opportunity. I do think what you're saying is, is true, but this is actually something I didn't have in my notes, but it just triggered something.

Ed 00:31:21 I do talk about how I do think the West and I think this comes from I mean, you're you're a, you're an ancient Rome guy. I'm a little bit more of an ancient Greece guy, but I think it comes from Greece and Rome. This emphasis on achievement like you're nobody unless you do something great. I mean, part of is individualism, but it's also a it's a desire to achieve something. And I think that, you know, all human beings have this to some extent. And of course, the Chinese, you know, invented stuff way before the West in many cases. Right. I just feel like there's something about, Confucian culture, Buddhism, Thai culture, where a lot of times Thais get their identity from maybe their family or position in life. And so they don't they don't need to do anything. Like I think in the West it's a little bit dark, where a lot of times we feel like we're nothing until we achieve something. You know, it's like, I'm nobody, I'm a loser until.

Ed 00:32:28 And I think, to be honest, I think times are healthier. Like they're, you know, their identity is, oh, I'm the oldest, I'm the oldest child of my family. And that's. And they don't feel like anything's wrong with them. Like that's their role. That's their identity. Right. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And so I think I think ties might be Super Asians. You know, they're like super Buddhist, whereas they're just kind of chill and they're kind of happy being their mother's daughter or being an older sister.

Greg 00:32:55 Right, right. There's this there's a sentiment going around that I've seen a lot more of recently online, and it's people just sort of saying like, hey, by the way, what's wrong with just wanting enough money to pay my rent, enjoy my hobbies, and hang out with my friends? There's nothing wrong with that. I don't need to be climbing corporate ladders and whatever. Whatever. I just want to be comfortable and happy.

Greg 00:33:16 That's it. And I think a lot of ties are are like that. They're like, I'm happy working at my family's business. Raising a family.

Ed 00:33:23 Right.

Greg 00:33:23 You know. Yeah.

Ed 00:33:24 That's it. anyway, you know it for me, I do, I do. I have fallen in love with my job. And then doing a little bit of the inverse on the podcast. You know, I do feel I do feel this world because I, you know, I wasn't joking during the intro where I still feel like I just see stuff in Thailand that I would not have expected. You know, I've been here 24 years now, and then a Thai person will do something or say something, or the Thai government and I'll just and it's just I'll be like, really? Did they did they do that? Like, what does that mean? You know, where does that come from? Right.

Greg 00:33:57 That's funny. Well, that's, that's good, man. And let me so, so just to finish up here, you said you noticed a difference between your new students and your graduated students.

Greg 00:34:07 Like your first year, for sure. do you notice, even then, a bigger difference with your students that come back from the US after they've been there a few years? I imagine so, but what is it?

Ed 00:34:16 I mean, I don't get to interact with them too much, but there's definitely a difference. You know, I might have mentioned this before in the show, but when I interview high school students to go to my program, I can tell immediately if they were exchange students in the States. So, I mean, you know, usually they go for a year and when they walk in the room, even when they're walking towards me, I'm like, okay, that person is not just by themselves. Yeah, I call them, you know, I call them tai tai. Tai Tai is like Tai students said, who never left Thailand. And when a student spends two semesters in an American high school, they're totally different. I mean, it's actually kind of shocking. And this is how how I got interested in all this culture stuff.

Ed 00:34:58 Culture matters like that. You know, I always say like, I'm an idea guy. I don't care about culture. But man, it's like I've just learned, like culture. It really matters. It's different. It changes people. It changes people.

Greg 00:35:10 Yeah. Interesting. Interesting. Well, I have met some of your students, former students who have been to the US and have come back, and they are also.

Ed 00:35:17 On the show. We've had some on the show.

Greg 00:35:19 Yeah, they are, by all accounts, exceptionally cool and interesting and smart people. So good job, AJ, an editor, you're doing your job well.

Ed 00:35:24 Thank you. Thank you very.

Greg 00:35:25 Much. Yeah, thanks. That's interesting. All righty then. Well, let's do something with that. We call. Would you rather wear one of us picks? Two contrasting situations tied to Thailand to debate and choose which one we'd prefer. And this weekend, I got a question for you.

Ed 00:35:40 All right, man. Hear me?

Greg 00:35:42 It's along the same lines, and it's.

Greg 00:35:43 It's kind of a gimme, I think, which I think I know which one you'd rather do, but, seeing how things are progressing in the world these days, I wanted to hear what you had to say. So say you're going back to school to get an advanced degree and say that advanced degree was political science. Would you rather have your specialty focus on American politics in 2025 or Thai politics in In 2025.

Ed 00:36:09 I mean, this is literally up my alley. You know, we were just talking about before the show. it's right now. American politics are just so unbelievably frustrating. But it's my job. But it's my job.

Greg 00:36:22 You know, that's what I was thinking, like, would you rather study Thai politics? They're both interesting. Would you rather study Thai politics and sort of have a have an easier go of it, or just sort of have your brain melt while you study American politics?

Ed 00:36:33 The bottom line. Here's the honest to God truth. I've almost reached my limit of Thai politics.

Ed 00:36:39 I'm sorry. I've almost reached my limit of American politics. So if you if you if I had a choice right now, I would study Thai politics. Really? Just for something different. It's, I've been going deep on American politics for, like, a long time, and, it's. I don't know, I, you know, it's too much. And maybe it's also just the the courses I teach. I don't really get a break from it. Right. So I'm just I'm just always have to know what's going on in the news. You know, I teach both American government and international relations. So I've got I got to be up on Russia and Ukraine and, and Gaza and it's just it's depressing and stressful. And I chose it, you know, and I do like it, you know. So it's but even if, even if you're doing what you love, you can get burned out. Yeah, totally. And, so I think I would choose Thai politics because, because I have way more to learn.

Ed 00:37:32 And I still consider it kind of a black box. I mean, you and I, I've tried to understand it. I've done a few shows, so I've got maybe more than the average expat, but I've been here much longer than I've been here much longer than the average expat. So I probably I would choose to study Thai politics. It'd be hopefully a refreshing change.

Greg 00:37:50 Yeah. This this doesn't seem like a nice break. Like you can downshift for a while and enjoy it.

Ed 00:37:55 It'd be like a new set of problems. I think I'd like a new set of a new a new nightmare.

Greg 00:38:00 That's funny. Slightly less existential nightmare.

Ed 00:38:03 That's right, that's right.

Greg 00:38:04 Yeah.

Ed 00:38:04 That's funny. Good question. Good question. All right. A final thanks to our patrons who support the show. Patrons get a ton of cool perks and the warm, fuzzy feeling knowing that they're helping and are never ending. Quest for cool content. Find out more by clicking support on our website and connect with us online or Bangkok podcast on social media, Bangkok Podcast on the web or simply Bangkok Podcast at gmail.com.

Ed 00:38:27 We love hearing from our listeners and always reply to our messages.

Greg 00:38:31 That's right. You can also listen to each episode on YouTube. Send us a voicemail through the website to the feature on the show. Hit me up at blue Sky or on blue Sky at Greg. Thank you for listening, everyone. Take it easy. Out the door. Stay calm. Stay cool. We'll see you back here next week.

Ed 00:38:44 No doubt.