Bangkok History Highlight: 20 Years Later - Looking Back at the 2004 Boxing Day Tsunami [S7.E13]

Greg (00:00:05) - On this episode, we look back at the devastating 2004 tsunami and the legacy it left that persists to this day.
Ed (00:00:12) - So whether you remember it happening or were just
a child when it happened, you'll be fascinated by this episode of the Bangkok
Podcast.
Greg (00:00:32) - Sawasdee Krub. And welcome to the Bangkok Podcast.
My name is Greg Jorgensen, a Canadian who came to Thailand in 2001 to learn how
to be woke. But instead I was misunderstood and they kept giving me joke and I
never bothered to correct them.
Ed (00:00:46) - And I met an American who came to Thailand on a
one year teaching contract 23 years ago, fell in love with the fact that my
summer, winter, fall and spring clothes were all the same, so I never left.
Greg (00:01:01) - That's good man, you've got to get to my level of
enlightenment when it comes to clothes. What am I going to wear today? Shorts
and a black t shirt. How's that? That's right. There we go.
Ed (00:01:08) - Jeans, jeans and a black t shirt.
Greg (00:01:11) - He never changes. And why would it? No. And for
those that don't know, a joke is a delicious rice porridge.
Ed (00:01:17) - That's right. Actually, it played a role in
hangover two. There was a joke. Joke in hangover two?
Greg (00:01:23) - Yeah, he was talking about how they give it to old
people because it's pablum and boring and easy to chew.
Greg (00:01:28) - Maybe it says something about me, but I like it.
Ed (00:01:30) - Want to say a quick thank you to one of our
patrons, Megan Smith, who supports us at the show. Shout out level. Stick
around. After our look back at the 2004 tsunami to hear why Greg and I like to
get sweaty with Megan, but only in a virtual sense.
Greg (00:01:45) - Trust me, it'll make sense eventually.
Ed (00:01:46) - We want to give a big thanks to all of our other
patrons who support the show. Patrons get every episode a day early, behind the
scenes photos of our interviews, a heads up to send questions to upcoming
guests, and access to our discord server to chat with me, Greg, and other
listeners around the world. But best of all, patrons like Megan also get an
unscripted, uncensored bonus episode every week where we riff on current events
and Bangkok topics. On this week's bonus show, we chatted about the. On this
week's bonus show. We chatted about the incredibly upsetting accusations by a
listener that we are too woke.
Greg (00:02:22) - To call that guy a wambulance.
Ed (00:02:24) - And we had a discussion on the hopefully impending
legalization of same sex marriage and perhaps even gambling in Thailand, and
what those two things might look like in reality. And we also had a few
thoughts on a report that said Thailand gets the highest number of scam calls
and SMS of any country in Asia to learn how to become a patron and get all this
good stuff, plus full access to over 700 bonus and regular back episodes. Click
the support button at the top of our website.
Greg (00:02:54) - Time to take up gambling. I guess.
Ed (00:02:56) - That's right.
Greg (00:02:57) - I'm sure I could beat the house. There must be a
way. All right, before we get started, I want to read a message from our buddy Gene
Now editor, you and I have been talking on recent shows about the terrible air
quality up in Chiang Mai. Uh, there has been several days where the air quality
has been the worst in the world, and, uh, that's not good for anything. So a
couple of times it's been mentioned on the show, but one of our long time
listeners, Jean, who lives in Chiang Mai, sent us a quite an interesting email.
And it says, uh, this I live in Chiang Mai. The reality up here is not exactly
as you might think. The headlines blaring Worst Pollution in the world refer to
individual days or short groups of days. Most days here are relatively fine.
Most tourists and locals are living normally, and I see very few masks. About
the past ten days, the AQI was under 100, most days many less than 50. True,
many days this season have been worse, but it just isn't all that bad. Overall,
we are nowhere near the world's worst pollution 99% of the time. General
statements are not good indicators of the situation. What do you think that are
interesting?
Ed (00:03:55) - Uh, this is a good point. Um, you know, when I've
been up to Chiang Mai, it's been fine, but I think it was just time of the
year. I mean, so at this point is well taken that it might be bad, but it's not
every day of the year.
Greg (00:04:08) - Right? Right. And he continues, he said, don't get
me wrong, you're right. The will to fix it is not present. And the politics
around all this is awful. This needs to be discussed and the government needs
to the push to solve this very solvable problem. Yeah. So, uh, yeah, there we
go. So it's interesting hearing from someone on the ground because of course,
we're totally removed from the situation down here in Bangkok. We got our own
problems with the air. Yeah, but maybe it's maybe it's not as bad as, as, uh,
as we read. And, of course, you know how the press works, right? No one's going
to run a giant headline blaring air. Not bad today.
Ed (00:04:38) - Air. Not as bad as we thought. You know, there's
no. Yeah, yeah. They don't retract stuff. So anyway, that's a very valid point
from Gene
Greg (00:04:45) - Yeah. Good. Thanks for writing, Gene All right. On
this episode we are going to do another history episode. But this one's a
little bit different because we're going to be talking about the 2004 Boxing
Day tsunami. Now, for listeners who have been here a while, like Ed and I, this
seems like a strange thing to classify as a history episode, because to us you
can probably classify it as recent history. Like we remember this pretty
vividly. But Ed and I were talking recently, and we realized that it's been a
full 20 years since this happened, and that's an entire generation that has
gone by. Sure, there are probably people who listen to the show. Many of them
may even be living in Bangkok who are still in diapers when the tsunami
happened, and for whom. This is a vague historical event that they've only read
about in books or seen clips of on YouTube or TikTok or whatever the hell the
kids. Use these days. So we have a bit of a unique structure for the show. So
let's go over the basics of what happened and then add, and I will talk a
little bit about our own memories of the event. And later we'll be joined by
our pal Hugh Van ESS, who has published a short book that's a very personal
story of his experiences as he rushed down to Phuket the day after the tsunami
hit to see if he could find a friend of his who had been staying in Khao Lak,
which was one of the hardest hit areas. So it's sort of a kind of hit us both
when we were discussing this, like like, yeah, it's easy to think 20 years, but
you think and that's a whole generation of people that have grown up and are
now living here, to whom? This is a distant memory, not like a vague thing that
happened way over there in the past.
Ed (00:06:12) - You know, this happens. Uh, I have a I have a
little bit of insight on these time, uh, dilation issues because, uh, when I,
when I interact with my students, I sometimes talk about something and then I
go, oh, my God, you guys are only 19, right? So this literally happened before
you're born, you know, so if I, if I mentioned something like the tsunami, of
course they've heard about it, but I mean, I, you know, just because of my age
and how long I've been here, I might know way more than they do about
something.
Greg (00:06:41) - You know, I might not be a perfect parallel, but
this tsunami was sort of like Thailand's Princess Di moment. Like a lot of
people can remember where they were when this happened, and it was just such
massive news and a massive impact to the country.
Ed (00:06:55) - Oh no.
Ed (00:06:56) - Doubt. I mean, I, you know, I know you're going to
kind of recount the story, but I just remember just, you know, we hear the
initial news and you're like, wow, this is bad. And then two hours later it's
like, oh my God, this is like really bad. And then and then it just got worse
and worse and worse and worse and then and then you and then of course,
eventually it it's essentially a like an Earth wide catastrophe when you look
at the total number of people who died in the whole thing, it's it's literally
of epic proportions.
Greg (00:07:24) - Right, right. So let's go over what happened,
shall we? Um, on December 26th, 2004, that's Boxing Day for us in the
Commonwealth. Uh, just before 8 a.m., a 9.1 magnitude earthquake hit just off
the coast of Sumatra, Indonesia. Now, if you're not a seismologist, that isn't
just a big earthquake. It is a massive earthquake. It's hard to fathom just how
big this earthquake was, actually. In fact, since 1900, the only earthquakes
recorded with a greater magnitude were the 1960 Valdivia earthquake with a
magnitude of 9.5, and the 1964 Alaska earthquake in Prince William Sound with a
magnitude of 9.2, so only two earthquakes since 1900 have been bigger than
that.
Ed (00:08:06) - That's crazy.
Greg (00:08:07) - The energy released was 1500 times the Hiroshima
atomic bomb. Seismic waves were felt around the entire planet and in up to the
state of Oklahoma, where vertical movements of three millimeters were recorded.
Ed (00:08:19) - Wow.
Ed (00:08:20) - I didn't know that. I did not know that it it went
that far. I mean, I I'm going to tell my story in a minute. Like so I felt
something in Bangkok, but I had no idea in Oklahoma there was movement.
Greg (00:08:30) - It's crazy. It's crazy. Uh, harmonic oscillation
in the Earth's surfaces was still measurable up to four months after the
earthquake, and it even caused the entire planet to wobble on its axis,
shortening the length of a day by 2.68 microseconds.
Ed (00:08:45) - Holy shit. I did not know that.
Greg (00:08:47) - Yeah. Underwater, along the fault line. It was a
complete shit show. There was a 4 to 5 millimeter movement vertically. Massive
underwater shelves collapsed, causing huge landslides, and the momentum of the
water displaced by this tectonic uplift also dragged massive slabs of rock,
each weighing millions of tons, as far as ten kilometers across the ocean
floor. So it was a huge, huge thing.
Ed (00:09:10) - Craziness.
Greg (00:09:11) - Yeah. Now, of course, that was just the first part
of the equation. Obviously, that much land moving that quickly displaced a
gargantuan amount of water and concentric waves immediately began to travel
outward from the epicenter. From the time the earthquake hit to the time the
first wave started hitting land in Thailand and some of the other areas, it was
a few hours. Obviously, in Indonesia, it was much sooner than that. However,
there was no tsunami warning systems in the Indian Ocean. And quite frankly,
before this, unless you lived in a place where tsunamis were a possibility, no
one really knew what the warning signs were. There are plenty of stories of
people watching the water along their beaches mysteriously start to recede far
out into the distance, leaving hundreds and hundreds of meters of empty sand.
Most people simply had no idea what was going on, and when the waves finally
came, were caught completely by surprise. That's right. In fact, the last major
tsunami in this area was after the 1883 eruption of Krakatoa. So you can see
why people weren't prepared.
Greg (00:10:10) - Yeah, I mean, I.
Ed (00:10:11) - Would not have known. I mean, now since the
tsunami, I'm more educated. But, you know, of course, the water receded, which
which I now know is, is a bad sign, you know.
Greg (00:10:22) - Right.
Ed (00:10:22) - So which which I would have been just like a lot
of people, unfortunately, who when the water receded, I probably would have
walked out like, oh, this is cool, you know?
Ed (00:10:31) - Yeah, yeah.
Greg (00:10:32) - And that's something that can come out of this,
right, is like now the the immense publicity around it. Now, almost everyone
knows that if the water starts to go out, like you better start running, right?
That's common knowledge. But back then no one knew.
Ed (00:10:43) - Run the other way. Yeah, I didn't I.
Ed (00:10:45) - Didn't not know that.
Greg (00:10:45) - Now, we're not going to go into huge detail about
all this, because I think everyone should know the basics and there are just
too many stories to tell and too many details to cover to get into here. So
let's narrow our narrow our focus just to Thailand and talk about what happened
here. Have you seen any footage on YouTube or even the actually pretty good
movie The Impossible? Have you ever seen that one?
Ed (00:11:04) - Uh, you know, it's funny, I was going to. I'm glad
you brought it up. I, you know, the movie The Impossible. I think it has a bad
name because it doesn't reveal anything about what the movie's about. It's it's
too generic and, uh, but it's actually a pretty good movie, especially because
it does educate you about how how scary the tsunami was. So I'm actually I'm a
fan of this movie. I mean, it's just I think a lot of people I mean, I know it
was reasonably successful, but I don't think a lot of people watch it or
realize it's actually a pretty good representation of the truth of how scary
and crazy it was.
Ed (00:11:43) - Yeah, yeah.
Greg (00:11:44) - It came out in 2012 and it's not the best movie in
the world, but it's pretty.
Ed (00:11:46) - Good. No, I recommend it.
Ed (00:11:48) - It's the special effects are great and it shows
you how incredibly massive and scary the, the, the tsunami was.
Greg (00:11:55) - Yeah. Also stars a pre Spider-Man, Tom Holland
when he was like 15 years old. He's pretty good correct?
Greg (00:12:02) - Correct. Um, now, uh, if you've seen that movie,
you know what happened or any videos on YouTube, you know what happened? As the
water rushed in, the waves grew higher and higher, up to 30m high by some
reports, traveling up to four kilometers inland, billions and billions of
gallons of seawater crashed into the land with incredible force, destroying
everything in their path. Cars were tossed like toys. Buildings were torn apart
in an instant. Factories, power plants, hotels, houses, schools, temples,
roads, farms they were all simply destroyed in the blink of an eye. And for the
unfortunate people caught in the water's path, their fate was sealed. And even
if they managed to struggle to the top and take a breath, they were still
caught in a terrible, swirling eddies of jagged metal and sharp concrete boats,
roofs, electrical wires, telephone poles, shattered glass, raw sewage, mud,
dirt and rocks, and animals and humans alike, all screaming and trying to find
their way out of danger.
Ed (00:12:56) - Dude, you.
Ed (00:12:56) - Know, I, I, of course, when I heard the news about
it and saw initial video, I was like, oh wow, this is crazy. This is bad. But I
remember thinking, well, I can swim. So I remember thinking that, uh, you know,
I probably would have been okay. Uh, but then but then the more I learned about
it and then eventually, you know, it was a years later when I saw that movie.
Impossible, like we said. And they just show, like, there's jagged shit, like,
caught up in the, in the, you know, it's it's a massive violent flood with,
like, sharp objects, like, swirling around. So it's not like just because you
can swim, it doesn't mean you're okay.
Greg (00:13:34) - Yeah. It's it's not like it's nice clear water.
It's like you're swimming in a big bowl of stew. And instead of meat and
potatoes, you've got jagged pieces of wood and glass and metal.
Ed (00:13:43) - Yeah, yeah. It's it's.
Ed (00:13:45) - Not. Yeah. You're not okay just because. Oh, hey,
I can swim pretty well. No it's not, it's not like that.
Greg (00:13:50) - No, no, it's just been horrible. So it was a
disaster on an unimaginable scale and one which absolutely no one was prepared
for. The countries that were hardest hit were Indonesia, Sri Lanka, India,
Somalia, Myanmar, the Maldives, Malaysia, Tanzania, Seychelles, Bangladesh and
even South Africa, Yemen, Kenya and Madagascar. Major locations damaged in
Thailand included the western shores of Phuket, the resort town of Khao Lak,
Krabi, Satun, Ranong and Trang, and small offshore islands like Coracao Yai,
cop and the Similan Archipelago. In Thailand, 5390 people were killed, with a
further 2817 who were never found.
Ed (00:14:30) - Wow.
Ed (00:14:30) - That many wait, are you saying almost 3000 people
have never been found?
Greg (00:14:35) - Just disappeared. Gone?
Ed (00:14:37) - Wow, I didn't.
Ed (00:14:38) - I didn't know that. I did not know that.
Greg (00:14:39) - In total, almost 185,000 people were confirmed
dead from the tsunami, with a further 44,000 who have never been recovered.
Ed (00:14:48) - Oh, yeah. Crazy. Uh, and again, it's like I said
earlier, you know, you knew it was bad at first and then, you know, remember
the days after, which kept getting worse and worse and worse and worse, right?
Like it really was, um, a true global tragedy. And, you know, Thailand was just
one of the, a bunch of countries who were hit. But, uh, you know, when you are
in the, in the, in the firing line of this thing, uh, it, uh, it it really it
was months. It was the thing that everyone in Thailand talked about it. It
affected a lot of different people. A lot of people knew someone who was
affected if not actually killed in tsunami and, uh, pretty much. All of us who
were here, like you mentioned earlier, we have a story about where we were when
we heard about the tsunami.
Greg (00:15:38) - What's your story about it? Tell us what happened.
Ed (00:15:40) - Well, it's funny, I have a very specific memory of
this. So back then, I was teaching, but not at my university. And I actually
taught a lot on the weekend. Uh, uh, you know, overall, I, I worked a pretty
normal workweek in terms of my hours, but I worked on the weekend, and so I
have this memory of going into work at an office tower on Sathorn. It's, you
know, 9 a.m.. I was probably 845 on a Sunday morning. You know, I'm on the 20th
floor and I go, I'm walking up to the office and it's dark and I'm like, wait a
minute, I'm supposed to teach today? It's dark. And then there was a I walk up
and there's a note on the glass and it said, um, the office is closed due to
the disaster. Um, and right around that time, I felt a little shake.
Ed (00:16:32) - Really?
Ed (00:16:33) - Yeah. And I didn't know what was going on. I
eventually I figured out about the tsunami, so I think I think it happened. I
think you mentioned earlier it happened around 8 a.m., but I don't know, I was
either sleeping or in the shower, so I didn't know anything about it happening.
I got in a taxi, went to work. But I learned later that the the office girls
had been in the office when the tsunami took place, and they felt the building
shake, and then they're listening to the listening to the radio. And the Thai
government was saying, this is an emergency situation, like go home. So they
shut the office. So they had been there by when the tsunami happened. The girls
were in the office, um, and they shut the office down and then put a note on the
door, like classes are cancelled because, you know, we had students coming.
They put a note, like classes cancelled. Uh, and so when I got there, they were
gone. And then I, I believe I felt an aftershock.
Greg (00:17:26) - Interesting. And you bring up an important point
too. And this is something we'll talk about with Hugh later on. But this was
way before Facebook and Twitter and things like that. Like, you know, the
information just wasn't there. That's right. Unless you saw it on TV or heard
it on the radio, or heard from gossip from a friend in person.
Ed (00:17:42) - So what about you? What were you doing?
Greg (00:17:44) - Well, for me, it was very interesting because I
wasn't even in Thailand. Actually, my girlfriend, my then girlfriend and I, um,
we flew out to, um, the Netherlands on Christmas Day, about midnight.
Ed (00:17:56) - Oh, okay.
Greg (00:17:56) - So so we got on the plane like at about midnight,
and it was a great I remember being a great flight because it was completely
empty. Right. So we could stretch out across the whole row and go to sleep.
Ed (00:18:07) - You know, that's cool.
Greg (00:18:08) - That was great. So we landed in Amsterdam about,
uh, about, I don't know, eight in the morning or something like that. And we,
we went to our friend's house. We were visiting our friend's mom and Wynand,
and by the time we got to their place, it was, say, 9 a.m.. And that would have
been about, what, 11 noon in, in Thailand. So the the tsunami had already
happened when we were in the air. Yeah.
Ed (00:18:28) - So you basically kind of you completely missed it.
Greg (00:18:31) - Completely missed it. Yeah. But we saw it on the
TV and I remember we were eating breakfast and we were chatting and catching up
and in a good mood and everything a little bit jet lagged. But we're fine. And
we see on the bottom of the TV, you know, like like tsunami in Thailand, 22
people missing. We're like, oh, that's no good. And then it just went up. Oh
yeah. And then half an hour later it was like, we've updated our numbers 140
people missing, 300 people missing, 600 people missing. You know. Right. 100
people confirmed dead. And we're like, wow, this is not good. And then just
throughout the day, it just went on and on and on and got worse and worse and
worse. And of course, we were eager to start our vacation. We were out and
about. We were doing the touristy things, but, you know, and again, there
wasn't messages coming into our phones and stuff like this. This was before
easy roaming. The first iPhone came out in 2007. So this was definitely dumb
phone. Sure. Right. Times. Right. So yeah, it was a terrible, terrible thing.
And, um, phone calls were made and I remember my, my then girlfriend, her
someone she knew her friend was in Phuket and was missing. So she had a
personal connection to it all. So that put a little bit of a pall over the
trip.
Ed (00:19:40) - Sure.
Ed (00:19:40) - No, no, I mean, many people we knew, uh, as far as
I know, among our crew or friends, I think none of them were absolutely
directly affected. But definitely friends of ours had friends who were lost,
like, I know, like you. So it was kind of just two steps away from us, or at
least me. You know, it was it was not anyone I knew.
Greg (00:20:04) - Yeah, I think everyone knew. Someone who knew
someone who was affected.
Ed (00:20:07) - That's right, that's right.
Greg (00:20:08) - You know. Yeah. And it was funny. So we were only
there for, you know, ten days or so, and we came back and then I remember I the
recovery efforts were still ongoing, and I felt really compelled to do
something to try and help. And I talked to my boss at the time and I was like,
hey, can I just, like, go down there and just show up and see if I can do
something? And he was like, yeah, if you want to like, take a couple of days
off and go down. And I remember I showed up at the office and I had my bag
packed, I had a backpack ready to go, and I was going to go to the office and
buy a ticket because I heard that there was no no one was going there anymore.
Like, there's no tourists going down to Phuket. Sure, they were all coming
back, so I so I heard it was really easy to get a ticket. So I went to work
with the intention of buying a ticket and just showing up and trying to help.
Um, but that morning I was reading more news about it, and basically people
were saying, like, we know there's a lot of people that want to help, but
unless you're a professional recoverer or paramedic or something like that, oh,
I see don't come right. You're just going to confuse things and you're probably
going to cause more problems than you want to solve. Gotcha. So I never I never
went I.
Ed (00:21:11) - Never went, oh, gotcha, gotcha.
Greg (00:21:12) - They just said there's nowhere for you to go. No
one's going to be able to take care of you. You're going to be on your own. You
don't know what you're doing. You're going to be lost, and you're just going to
cause problems. So yeah, I never went, but, um.
Ed (00:21:23) - Well, I, you know, I want to say this, I mean.
There's so much that could be said about the tsunami, but I'll tell you this I
have a very clear memory of the months after the tsunami and how awesome Thai
people were. And I just heard this. I heard this over and over and over again
from tourists or tourists families. The feedback from from foreigners was Thai
people are incredibly helpful. Thai people down in Phuket just came out of the
woodwork to help. Obviously Thai people who were affected, but also foreigners.
I mean, I just heard this over and over and over again and those people stepped
up.
Greg (00:22:04) - So let's let's go over to the interview that I did
with with our pal Hugh Van Es, who has written a little book called and I mean,
that, you know, I don't want to pass it off as like a trifle or anything like
this, but it's a short book. It's called Hell in Paradise One Man's Quest to
Search for his friends after the 2004 tsunami in the south of Thailand. So he
had a much more vivid and personal and close experience with things in you and
I did. Um, so I thought it would be cool to have him on the show to talk about
his experiences, because he went down there and he was directly involved in
some recovery efforts and things like that. So, uh, let's let's go over to a
quick interview I had with, with Hugh and hear what it was like for him. All
right. Well, joining us as a guest on this special episode is, uh, the man, a
man whose, uh, goatee majesty rivals only my own. And we're, well, talking
with, uh, Mr. Hugh Venice. Hugh, welcome to the Bangkok Podcast.
Hugh (00:23:01) - Thank you. Greg, nice to be here. Yeah.
Greg (00:23:04) - Nice to meet you tonight. And, uh, we wanted to
have you on the show because, um, we we got to chatting a little while ago
about, uh, about a book you wrote, and you have a very personal experience with
the tsunami and how it affected you and your life and your job and and the and
the rest of Thailand. So I thought it would be really interesting to have you
on here, because as we, as we heard, um, Ed and I only have, you know, sort of
second hand, uh, accounts of it and we were in Bangkok the whole time. But your
story was, was a lot more harrowing and a bit more tragic. Um, so I thought it
would be really, really interesting to hear your side, to provide some context
and color to the whole thing. So what can you tell us about about your story
and the tsunami and what happened?
Hugh (00:23:46) - Right. Well, by by 2004, I was basically had been
living in Thailand for about 17 years, and I was quite stressed in a job that I
was, uh, employed at. Um, and in March of 2004, I, through my brother, I met,
uh, Erwin. He's a Belgian guy that had been here for four years and was
managing a diamond polishing factory, making, uh, triple excellent ideal cut
stones. So really the highest quality of diamonds. And at the time, he was
looking for an operation manager to, to grow to, to further grow the business.
They were about 200 people, uh, employed at the time when I arrived. And my
first interview was amazing. It took four hours. I mean, you never heard of
anybody going for an interview that takes four hours because it just kind of
clicked, right? Erwin was the MD at this factory that I was interviewing at,
uh, originally from Belgium. Also bald like myself. Handsome? You mean
handsomely bald. And, um. Yeah, it clicked and he took, you know, went through
the whole factory together. And it was such a nice, a nice change from the
previous job, where it was just stress after stress that. Uh, yeah. To make a
long story short, he gave me the job and I started there in June of 2004, so
worked closely with him. I was I had an office next to his, and we really grew
the business from 240 people to over 400 by the end of the year. And he and his
wife were childless, uh, chosen as as not to have children. And they enjoyed
scuba diving around the world. They had gone to the Maldives, really, you know,
the major spots around the world where you go scuba diving. So they had planned
their Christmas to go down south, whereas my family and I have, uh, I'm married
to a Thai, I have two kids. And at that time they were five and two. And we
could have easily chosen to go down to the south. But we said, let's go to
Kokang, because even though I had been here for 17 years and never really went
to Kokang, so four hours in the car with two young kids, that should be doable.
So the moment we arrived on Kokang was the 26th of December, around 10 a.m. and
we were sitting waiting for the ferry. And of course, what do we do? We just
have a bowl of noodles. And on the TV we heard that there was a tsunami or an
earthquake in Indonesia, but, you know, not really hearing anything about
Thailand at the time. I guess the wave was still on the way. And so we just
didn't really think of anything of it. Went to the hotel, checked in kids at
the pool the whole day, and it was only in the evening back into the room. Uh,
when we turn on the TV where we saw the extent of the damage. So it was really
that whole afternoon by the pool, oblivious of what had happened. Just know
there was an earthquake in Indonesia. Yeah. So then in the evenings, like,
okay, this is this is serious because the whole of south of Thailand was, was,
uh, hit as well. So started right away calling to various people to find out
because they didn't answer their phone calling repeatedly messages, nothing.
Nothing was done. So the next day I just spent the whole day trying to piece
together, okay, where they were staying because, you know, we didn't know how
they had booked. Did they book it through the through the company or anything?
So the GM at the time went back to the factory and found out they actually
booked at the Sofitel in Khao Lak, which by then we heard was one of the worst
hit areas in Thailand. So then the next day I said I called the the owner of
the company who was on his way to Bangkok to spend Christmas holidays in
Bangkok. I say, listen, I'll cut my holiday short. I'll drive to Bangkok, drop
the family in, uh, in at home, and I'll just fly in the first flight. First
flight to Phuket. So that was then the 28th in the evening of December.
Greg (00:27:35) - There must have been a nerve wracking couple of
days. Yeah, in the.
Hugh (00:27:38) - Plane was completely empty, but the whole it was
only Don Muang at the time. There was no Suvarnabhumi yet. And the whole, the
whole, uh, airport was completely packed with people that had changed their
flights at the last minute. Chaos. So yeah, chaos. And then but then you
finally get on the plane, it was completely empty. I was, I think me and two
other guys that were on the plane down to Phuket, wow. Even though the airport
was completely full, it's eerie. It was very eerie. And then you arrive in
Phuket, it's already dark, so, you know, you drive through town. And at that
time, I was just looking for a hotel for us to stay, and, uh, we just. Yeah.
Didn't see anything of the tsunami in Phuket town, at least where we drove. I
guess we were on the the correct side or. Because then the next day, we drove
down and tried to figure out where where they had been or where they were and
just trying to piece this, the clues together that we found out and spend four
days down south between Phuket and Khao Lak to just trying to find them.
Hugh (00:28:40) - Yeah.
Greg (00:28:41) - And you were in touch with his family the whole
time. So were you were sort of like getting all these calls from everybody.
Exactly. Your own family was probably worried as well.
Hugh (00:28:47) - Exactly. And the, the added difficulty at the
time, I mean, okay, mobiles were still a new thing. So the network quality down
south was just horrible. You had to try to dial in again and again and again
before you actually had a live number. And that was that added to the
frustrations for sure.
Greg (00:29:01) - Yeah. And for, you know, for, for for people who
are hearing this who are on the younger side of things, you lucky bastards. Um,
and don't know what it was like back then. This is way before Facebook and
Twitter and everything like that. Like this was the primitive era, right? It
was information was really hard to come by, and most.
Hugh (00:29:16) - Of the time was just still, you know, newspapers
or the television. You know.
Greg (00:29:22) - In a best case scenario, you're looking at a multi
hour delay for sure. Anything new.
Hugh (00:29:27) - For sure. For sure. And even I mean, it was good
that by that time I already spoke a good level of Thai. So that first night on
the 26th just spent the whole night trying to go from channel to channel
because everybody was covering it, right? Right. Even the Thai channels just
listening and trying to figure out anything because we thought they went to the
Similan Islands to go scuba diving there. But I guess you had to go out of Khao
Lak to get to the Similan Islands. At that time I didn't wasn't aware of that.
So okay, okay. Just trying to piece the clues together to to find out what,
what had happened and where they had gone and things like that.
Greg (00:30:00) - Now, now, you wrote a very, a very interesting,
uh, short book about this experience, uh, Hell in Paradise, which is, it's a
it's a quick read. Uh, you gave me a copy a little while ago, and I read it,
but it's it's interesting and it's a it's a really, really insightful look at,
at this experience for you. It's a very personal story, but it also gives you
some really good insight into how the Thai people reacted and how you were
feeling and how other people were feeling, and how just absolutely lost and
confused people were because no one knew what to do, exactly where to go, and
no one knew who to talk to.
Hugh (00:30:34) - Right?
Hugh (00:30:34) - I mean, I don't I mean, we've, you know, in the
past when, when I was here, we've had, you know, the tough floods in the, in
the South, you know, I think it was 2006 or even earlier that really the whole
south was flooded. And we, you know, the donations and all that. But a disaster
of this proportion, you know, in living memory. You never heard of something
like this, right? Okay. Earthquakes. Yes. This is something you hear all the
time. But a massive tsunami that covers almost half the world, a regional
catastrophe. Exactly. And cataclysmic. India, Sri Lanka, I mean, you, you name
it all. All those countries were affected by it. And it was was so eerie that
you, you know, you what to do. Right? What do you do in a situation like that.
Yeah. And it was really by my wife just saying Hugh, you gotta go look for
them. You know, they don't have any family here. It's not that anybody in the
factory is going to look for the boss. You know, you're his second hand, you
know. Second. The right hand man. You got to go look for them, right? Right.
The reason why I decided to write a book. Because those four days, even now, I
mean, it's like you said earlier, it's 20 year anniversary of the tsunami,
right? But that those four days down south has even now, it's still so vividly
with me. I close my eyes and I'm reliving those four days. So I decided about
seven years ago to let's put this on paper. Let's let's just see what happens
if I start writing this down and it helped a little bit. I'm not saying that it
helped with the healing, but in, in a way it it gave a little bit of closure,
you know? Okay. Now it's on paper. It's no longer just a story in my mind.
Okay? Something I relive. I lived and relived in my thoughts, but never really.
Let's say let's put this down on paper. So again, I wrote it just from the day
that we left to Kokang to the 31st, when we returned back to to Bangkok, and
then about 20, 20, 21, my son, who was about 18 at the time, asked me, um, do
you still have that story? Because my I was talking to my friend about tsunami
and I told him, you wrote a book. And I said, yeah, sure. So I looked it up,
found it in my documents folder, and basically dusted it off virtually, added a
beginning and an ending, and then really tried to figure out to really put it
in the story. And then I sent it to some some friends and family like my mom, a
couple of colleagues, a couple of friends that I trust. Their judgments and the
reviews were so, so nice. I said, okay, let's give it a try. So I just went on
Google and that was 2022. In the beginning, February looked okay. Penguin was
the first publishing house, I think, the the world's most famous one. And then
we had Olympia publishers out of the UK. Okay, sounds familiar. And they had to
submit your manuscript on their website, so I just submitted it and didn't hear
anything for weeks. I kind of forgot about it already, and then all of a sudden
an email in my inbox from Olympia is like, hold on, what's this? Dear Mr.
Vanessa, after careful review with the editing team, we accept your story to be
published. And then basically from that email all the way to the publication
date of July 2023, it was basically the whole processing of promotion and
editing and rewriting and all that, but which took about about a year right
before that was complete. But, you know, it was beyond all expectations. I
really didn't realize or expect it to be, you know, accepted for publication.
Yeah. And so far the reviews have been fantastic. The only bad review, or could
be construed a bit negative is that it's too short, but I purposely did it too
short because, you know, people don't have time. Everything is short, right?
All short snippets. Tick tock.
Hugh (00:34:10) - Generation, isn't.
Greg (00:34:11) - It? Um, so so no spoilers, you know, and I don't I
recommend everyone get the book because it's a really interesting insight into
the whole thing. But. But you did eventually find your boss and his wife and
they were victims of the tsunami. Yes. Um, so what did you take away from that?
What did that? Help you understand or learn about Thailand Thai culture.
Hugh (00:34:29) - Well, first of all, I think nobody was expecting
something like this to happen. Nobody was prepared for something that was
clear. I think most countries that were hit were also not prepared. But the
solidarity that I saw during those four days, the way that Thai people came
together and really tried to make a difference for those that have lost or had
lost people or those that are still looking for people. I mean, there's still I
don't know how many, but there's still so many people still unaccounted for
even after, you know, they're just never found. Right? Right. So that must be
really tough. I mean, you know, that they probably perished, but to not have
any closure on that, I think that's tough. So I think in a way we were so
fortunate to have found them at that time because it was just unrecognizable.
You know, you couldn't you couldn't really piece together who those people were
because, you know, when we found them, it was like three days after the
disaster had happened. So, you know, lukewarm water, those temperatures. Yeah.
You can only imagine. Right. So it was tough. And for me to just go through the
temple where, where we found them is, is just I was in shock, you know, it's
like just to to to realize, okay, where do I start? Because nobody I figured,
you know, he's he was a big guy, bald like us. He had just done a teeth
bleaching a couple of weeks before, so you could figure we spot them right
away. But I was just not the case, you know? And then the added difficulty
that, you know, they were all all the corpses were just wrapped in shrouds
with, you know, three places tight, tightly, tight. So you can imagine if you
have to really start untying them. So that first half hour is just walking
through those, those rows of like, a zombie, just okay, here and there where
there were a shroud was open. You kind of look in, okay, that doesn't look. He
has hair or whatever.
Greg (00:36:18) - Process of elimination. It's.
Hugh (00:36:19) - Yeah, but it was only by the, the fortunate event
that the day that I drove back to to Bangkok from Koh Chang, the driver of
Irwin, who had been his driver for four years, really knew them. He said,
listen, I can't sit here in Bangkok. Do you mind if I take the company car and
drive down to Phuket? I said, yeah, please go ahead. I'll see you there. And it
was him that actually found him and recognized. Look at the shirt. Look at the
way he tucked in his t shirt into his pants, the sandals. And just kind of
confirmed by by the wedding ring, which was engraved. Yeah, but that was the
only way. That was where we basically confirmed them.
Greg (00:36:59) - It's funny you say the solidarity and the help and
the sort of the, the community spirit that that was on display because, you
know, Ed and I talk about this all the time. And as foreigners here, it's it's
often easy to get frustrated with how things work. But we always have to remind
ourselves that, you know, like whether you're in a bank or a, or a shopping
mall or a government office or paying your electricity bill or doing your taxes
or something like that, there's always someone that's trying to help, even if
they're not giving you the same level of service as you would expect or hope.
They're trying. Yes. Right. And I think when you find someone even as something
as mundane as a bank transaction, when you find someone who is helping you and
who gets you and who's trying to make things better, it's like, oh, yes, I can
imagine for something like this situation that you were in, it was just even
way more emotionally intense and must have been just really, you know,
encouraging is the wrong word. But just to know that there were people who
understood what you were going through and who were trying to help, doing the
best they could in this overwhelming situation. Right? I mean, how do you think
that the Thailand has changed, like it's been a long time. It's been been just
over 20 years. That's that's that's long enough that people can forget about
it. And it's passed out of memory. Now you've got, you know, an entire new
generation that has only read about it in books and has just heard stories. So
has has what's what's the legacy of this in Thailand?
Hugh (00:38:19) - Well, I think what what is nice to see is that
every time some sort of disaster, be it floods or, you know, fire, wood fires
or forest fires, anything that is, is on a large scale, you still have that,
that. That ingrained, uh, quality of wanting to help, although you don't really
see it through the government, but ordinary people, you know, donation drives
any every time we had a company working in a company that I can always see that
there is definitely a a concern for their fellow fellow ties, especially maybe
those that are less of, you know, orphanages, home for the disabled. We always
had some sort of donation drive or, you know, helping out. And I think that is
still something that helps. But Thailand, as as you've been here a long time, I
mean, wasn't it I don't know how many years afterwards that they did a test on
the tsunami warning systems and pretty much figured out that none of them were
working anymore. So that is, of course always that. And that is something you
have to always keep in mind that it might be, you know, it's the new thing. So
they try to, you know, same same with everywhere. Same with Covid, right. Yeah
that is Covid okay. All these new rules. Same with everything. So didn't they.
Greg (00:39:41) - Also figure out that like half the traffic cameras
in the city don't work either.
Hugh (00:39:45) - So exactly.
Greg (00:39:46) - So well Hugh, thanks for coming on and chatting
about it. Um, it's it's a it's a really, really, uh, it's a sad story, but it's
also a bit of an inspiring story. It's a very interesting one. And your book
gives some, like I said, some really good insights into, you know, how things
work in a time of incredible crisis like that.
Hugh (00:40:01) - Right. Well, I brought you ten copies for maybe
your future guests or maybe give to your friends and family, whatever. Spread
the word.
Greg (00:40:08) - We will do a giveaway. How's that on the perfect.
Yeah, exactly. Where can people find it?
Hugh (00:40:12) - If so, locally, it's available at Asia Books in
Kinokuniya. It's also available on Amazon.com. There is an e-book available on
Kindle if needed, of course on Olympia website as well. So pretty much
available worldwide now. And just yeah, trying my best to promote it as much as
possible on my own website, on, you know, my own social media channels, and by
talking to as many people as possible and hopefully spread the word and the.
Greg (00:40:37) - Mighty Bangkok Podcast and the mighty.
Hugh (00:40:38) - Mighty Bangkok Podcast. So, so thank you very much
for the opportunity. This is hopefully it'll spread the word a bit and uh,
yeah, take it from there.
Greg (00:40:46) - Hell in Paradise by Hugh Vanness. Uh, very
interesting story. And and, uh, yeah, thanks again for coming on and talking
about it. Everyone go out, buy a copy through whatever method you can, and, um,
you know, let's learn from this and get better.
Hugh (00:40:58) - Thank you for having me. Thank you. All the best.
Ed (00:41:06) - Wow, that was intense. But, but, but but that's
how real it was. And you and I all know people who knew people like that.
Greg (00:41:13) - Yes, exactly. Yeah, exactly. So, uh, really,
really nice to sit down with you and, uh. Yeah, you almost can't imagine the
kind of, you know, mental anguish and stress that would place on someone. And,
um, if, if, if you've never gone through something like that, just be thankful
that you. We have never had to deal with that kind of for sure stuff, because
that's, uh, not not easy. And kudos to Hugh for writing a book about it and
telling people about the story. And again, it's really interesting book because
it does show what you said and the the kindness and the community that the Thai
people.
Hugh (00:41:45) - Absolutely.
Greg (00:41:45) - Really, really, really came together and show
their stuff.
Hugh (00:41:47) - Absolutely. For sure.
Greg (00:41:48) - Many thanks to you. And again, if you're, uh, if
you're online, uh, check out the book Hell and Paradise. It's a it's a short
read, but it's a very interesting one and a good insight into this historical,
very important event for Thailand. And one last thing I wanted to mention this
before. Before we go, um, there's a there's there are two restaurants in the
J.W. Marriott in the basement of the J.W. Marriott on Sukhumvit Soi two. Uh,
there is Sue and Nami, and I don't know if you remember, but they originally
opened those restaurants as one restaurant in 2003 called tsunami. That was the
name of the restaurant. Correct. And when the when the tsunami happened, they
split the restaurant in two and made Sue and Nami. I thought that was always a.
Yeah.
Ed (00:42:32) - No. Interesting.
Ed (00:42:33) - You want to know why I remember this? And no, this
is that after the tsunami happened, I was with a buddy of mine, uh, and we were
either in the J.W. Marriott or we were nearby, and he saw that the restaurant
was called tsunami. And we walked into the restaurant and he complained about
the name.
Greg (00:42:52) - No way. Really?
Ed (00:42:53) - For real? Yeah. I mean, I'm not saying I'm not
saying they changed the name because of him, but I was with a buddy of mine, a
Swedish guy, and he was like, wait a minute, this place is called tsunami. This
is totally inappropriate. Yeah. And we and we went in and he I don't know, I
was I stepped back a little bit and he walked in and bitched and moaned to
someone about it. Um, so that's why I do remember this. Yeah.
Greg (00:43:14) - Interesting. Interesting. Well, it just goes to
show the, you know, the depth of effect this had on, on Thailand.
Ed (00:43:20) - No doubt. Yeah.
Ed (00:43:21) - No doubt, no doubt. So as we mentioned at the
beginning of the show, we'd like to say thank you to Megan Smith for lending us
her support at the show. Shout out level. Greg, what did you find out about
Megan?
Greg (00:43:31) - Well, as it turns out, Megan is, uh, got a similar
story to our buddy Vinnie, our pal Vinny in New Jersey. He was thinking of
coming to Thailand, and I had a couple of nice emails back and forth with
Megan, and she said, I have no idea what you should say about me, but I live in
Central New York. I'm a mom to two Thai kiddos, have learned to speak and read
Thai via online tutoring from the US for the last four years. Another one of
these farangs that we don't like who speak better Thai than us. There's a lot
of them out there. There are. And I'm not so secretly hoping that my husband
will be convinced that we should move to Thailand in the near future and never
return to the States. My kids, who are seven and eight, are already on board
and beg at least weekly to go back to Thailand. I first visited Thailand back
in 2004 when I was in high school. I love listening to the Bangkok Podcast most
often while working out in my basement after my kids are asleep for the night.
Yeah, so there we go. That's why you and I accompany Megan while she's getting
sweaty. So there's nothing dirty.
Ed (00:44:25) - I see, I see. Okay, but.
Greg (00:44:27) - But I think that people, when they're working out,
they want lots of motivation. And you and I are nothing if not motivational.
Ed (00:44:33) - Yeah. Of course, of course.
Ed (00:44:35) - We. We're motivating because people are like, we
don't want to be like Ed and Greg.
Ed (00:44:40) - We want to learn.
Greg (00:44:41) - We want to actually learn to speak Thai. So that's
what she did.
Ed (00:44:44) - We want to lose some weight and we want to lose
some weight.
Greg (00:44:46) - And she's doing that too. Damn you, Megan, you're
so inspirational. I should put you in touch with with our pal Vinny. Megan, you
and him can talk and, uh, organize your things and get your families over here.
And we can start a little Bangkok podcast sponsored community of of expats in
Thailand, I like it. Thanks for your support, Megan.
Ed (00:45:02) - Thank you. Megan. Alrighty. A final thanks to all
of our patrons who support the show. Patrons get a ton of cool perks and the
warm, fuzzy feeling knowing that they're helping in our never ending quest for
cool content. Find out more by clicking support on our website and connect with
us online. We're Bangkok podcast on social media Bangkok Podcast.com on the web
or simply Bangkok Podcast at gmail.com. We love hearing from our listeners and
always reply to our messages.
Greg (00:45:32) - Yeah! You can also listen to each episode on
YouTube. You can send us a voicemail through our website that will feature on
the show. Hit me up on threads at BK. Greg. Thanks for listening everyone. Take
it easy and we'll see you back here next week.
Ed (00:45:42) - Absolutely