Checking in on Bangkok’s Craft Beer Scene with BangkokBeerGuide.com [S7.E19]

Greg (00:00:00) - Hey. Greg here. Did you know that I've created a few walking tours of Bangkok using the GPS on your phone? The routes take you through some of my favorite areas of the city, exploring the fascinating neighborhoods and hidden history that give Bangkok its sweet, sweet mojo. Head to voice maps and search for Bangkok. By phone on this episode, we chat with Cliff from Bangkok Beer Guide. Com about the constant evolution of Bangkok's craft beer scene.

Ed (00:00:29) - So if you're a fan of big beer, small beer, craft beer or weird beer, you'll dig this episode of the Bangkok Podcast.

Greg (00:00:52) - Sahwa decrepit. And welcome to the Bangkok Podcast. My name is Greg Jorgensen, a Canadian who came to Thailand in 2001 after I ran afoul of Canada's moose tax laws and went on the run. Ain't no way those hosers are getting my tunes.

Ed (00:01:07) - Moose tax. That's, that's definitely a Canadian thing.

Greg (00:01:10) - You don't mess around with that.

Ed (00:01:11) - And I am Ed Knuth, an American who came to Thailand on a one year teaching contract 23 years ago, fell in love with my friends, suffering horribly from mosquito bites.

Ed (00:01:20) - While I usually remain unscathed. So I never left.

Greg (00:01:24) - You, do, you bastard.

Ed (00:01:25) - I don't know what it is. mosquitoes don't like me, man.

Greg (00:01:29) - Oh, man. They they they love me. Especially my feet. When I was on cement a few weeks ago, I was sitting at, like, on the beach for dinner, and I had to, like, pile sand around my all over my feet and up to my ankles so the mosquitoes wouldn't get it. They love it.

Ed (00:01:43) - I realized over the years that I take pleasure when that happens to my friends. It's kind of a shot in for a thing. And so that's, you know, one of the reasons why I stay here.

Greg (00:01:52) - Well, that's one of the reasons why we don't like you.

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Ed (00:03:20) - Heck yeah.

Greg (00:03:21) - Alrighty then. Well, on this episode, we dive back into the foamy yellow side of Bangkok with another episode of our intermittent series on Bangkok's craft beer scene with.

Ed (00:03:30) - Foamy, foamy and yellow that that could be more than one thing.

Greg (00:03:35) - Well, I didn't want to put words in your mouth, but whatever you want to follow, that's, That's your path in life. Okay. And a long time listeners might remember our interviews with Ted from Chiang, One brewery from Chit Beer, Brian from beervanna, and of course, Tao from Thailand's parliament, who has literally gone to jail over craft beer. So we thought it was time for an update. And to that end, we are happy to sit down with our buddy Cliff from Bangkok Beer guide.com. As a fan of not only the amber liquid himself, but of the culture, camaraderie and companionship that craft beer culture promotes, he puts a ton of work into keeping Bangkok Beer guide.com updated with all the latest info on the city's best spots to enjoy a brew. So I sat down with Cliff to talk about beer in Bangkok, how the scene is evolving, and some of our favorite spots to go for unique new flavors and old school favorites alike. So here's my conversation with our pal Cliff.

Greg This is like the start of that, very famous Canadian movie, Strange Brew. You ever seen that?

Clif (00:04:47) - Of course. I was also going to say there are a couple of very good songs. Country music songs. Pop a top again. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It begins with a great sound of a can of beer opening. Cheers, man. Cheers.

Greg (00:05:00) - Well, everyone, if you haven't guessed, I'm here with my guest tonight. drinking beer.

Clif (00:05:06) - Hello everyone.

Greg (00:05:07) - And this is Cliff from the Bangkok Beer Guide. Cliff, welcome to the Bangkok Podcast.

Clif (00:05:11) - Thank you very much. I'm very excited to be able to talk about beer.

Greg (00:05:14) - Yeah, well, I'm very excited to be able to talk and drink about beer.

Greg (00:05:17) - Of course. Can we even say that? We can't. I know we can't show pictures in Bangkok. Maybe we'll talk about that later, but.

Clif (00:05:22) - Oh, I think the laws have become very fluid as of recently. Not everything is, so black and white anymore. I think the too.

Greg (00:05:30) - Busy legalizing or un legalizing marijuana and magic mushrooms and what have you.

Clif (00:05:34) - Exactly. Yeah.

Greg (00:05:35) - Well, it's been, it's been a while, you and I going back and forth, but we finally sat down together, and I thought it'd be fun to have you on because we have done shows on beer in the past, and we did one in season two with Evo. about the Changan Beer Express, I think it was called, and then of course, a few years ago we had on peach, the godfather of, of Thai craft beer. And, those guys are still going strong. And now you've got this website called the Bangkok Beer Guide. Correct. So fill us in, man. What's going on? What? It's about, what's it about? And what are you trying to do?

Clif (00:06:07) - Well, it is about supporting, especially local Thai beer when you're coming to drink in Bangkok.

Clif (00:06:15) - One of the things I think I want to first, first say is that I am not saying that I am the guide. The idea is that the website is a guide for beer lovers. So the Facebook page, the Instagram is really meant to show a love of beer, and especially when I can, a love of local craft beer. The idea being that if a tourist comes into town or there is somebody that is in Bangkok and is looking for information about beer, especially craft beer, that this would be able to act as a guide to maybe find a new place to try a beer, or to find out more information about different beer events. Right?

Greg (00:06:58) - It sounds like a big job, man. things are constantly changing, you know? And Covid must have just done a job. Although you've only been in Bangkok for just over a year. You said so. You were here post-Covid, I think.

Clif (00:07:09) - Correct. I've been here about a year and a half, and I think I was able to hit the very tail end of Covid.

Clif (00:07:15) - So I've been fortunate that I didn't have to see any of the bars really close. Instead, I saw a ramp up of, the beer drinking, situation, if you will. And honestly, when I got here, I've, I've been a fan of craft beer and multiple nations. So when I got here, I was like, well, how how do I find out more information about the local scene? Unfortunately, there weren't really many. There weren't really many resources. So I was like, well, you know, this is this is a passion of mine. I'm going to go ahead and have some fun. Let me create the Bangkok Beer Guide.

Greg (00:07:53) - That's awesome. And and now for, for for those who might not really know the landscape of beer in Bangkok, it's. And Thailand. It's a bit of a strange beast because there are there are regulations and laws and restrictions in place that might not be in place in other areas. first of all, you're not allowed to buy alcohol between the hours of something noon and 5 p.m..

Clif (00:08:15) - It's the big one is you're not supposed to be. You're not supposed to be able to buy alcohol between 2 and 5 p.m. unless you happen to be at a restaurant, right? So that's where a lot of the bars are able to kind of get around. But I think there's also sometimes you just have to sell a little bit of snacks. And I think you can start serving beer a little earlier than most people would imagine. You would.

Greg (00:08:40) - Right? So they put a can of beer on the thing with a peanut on top, and they're like, there's your meal, the free beer. The peanut costs 700 baht. there's also a long standing, like decades, decades old laws in place about the production of craft beer. And those were written I think we can probably safe to say, largely to protect the big beer companies.

Clif (00:09:01) - So I will agree with you. Yes, those laws, combine an issue that, there is sometimes a concern that the beer a person makes in their bathtub or in their garage may not actually be that safe.

Clif (00:09:19) - I think that's a legit concern. That is a legit concern. There is there is something to be said of needing hygienic standards. But in practice, these laws of saying that beer has to be produced at such a great quantity that you have to be a big company already before you can do anything, really also acts as a way to make sure that the really big names and beer remain the big names and beer, and that they're very hard to take any market share away from them.

Greg (00:09:52) - I think in the current, sort of current international news, the parlance of current international news, that would be called anti-competitive behaviour in Western Western language.

Clif (00:10:02) - Absolutely. Or crony capitalism, I think is another. The one and I and I would like to point out this. This is a conversation piece that is often had with craft beer drinkers. oftentimes when we support local craft beer, we're not saying don't drink anything else. for number one, I, I will happily drink one of the big guys, Chong Leo Singh.

Clif (00:10:27) - Those are good standard beers. You know what you're going to get from them? But if I'm going to go out on a night out, I'm probably not going to be looking for those places right now, right?

Greg (00:10:38) - Yeah. You're not going to go out on a on a on a Chong bender with the boys who were in town.

Clif (00:10:42) - That's generally not my style. No, sir.

Greg (00:10:45) - So but in recent years, I'd say probably over the past ten years or so, the craft beer scene has really sort of grown from this little sort of backyard bathtub thing that you were talking about to a real legitimate force. And there's been a lot of, Thais who have been introduced to the scene overseas and have brought their tastes and likes back. That's how Pete got started when he was over in Denver. I think he was, I can't remember, but, you know, there's even now it's it's bled into politics. A former guest, top pop is a, is a big beer guy, and he even went to jail town.

Clif (00:11:19) - Yep. town is his own place out on the west side. Yeah, it's.

Greg (00:11:22) - Close to our place.

Clif (00:11:23) - Right. Have you been there yet?

Greg (00:11:24) - Both. Both? Cliff and I live in Thornbury. The cool part of Bangkok. And,

Clif (00:11:29) - This is one of his beers, by the way, I am. I'm going to hand you a can of cold beer that is brewed by Tao.

Greg (00:11:35) - Amazing. Yeah. I haven't been to his place, but I'll tell you what. Let's. Once we're done here, let's make a date.

Clif (00:11:39) - That sounds great. I've been, his place is Tao. I'm probably not going to say it the best, but Tao bebop project, it's actually a really cool place. And it's it's funny, as an American going there because the rules are different. So his place is a bar, has a great selection of local and imported beers, but it's also his campaign headquarters. So when you go in there, you see posters of him smiling all nice, and it's like, that is the same guy that I was drinking beer with at a beer festival.

Clif (00:12:11) - That's awesome.

Greg (00:12:12) - Right? Well, Beto is a is a member of parliament here, and he has he has, argued very seriously of for the legalization of, of craft beer and that industry. And like I said, it's bled into politics now. So it's become somewhat of an issue over the past decade, and it's really starting to become much more common now. And I know that it might seem a bit weird. I mean, you are a foreigner. You haven't been here that long. I mean, there's nothing wrong with that, but but you obviously have a passion for this, so you might not be the best guy to know all the nuances of the scene in Thailand.

Clif (00:12:45) - I 100% agree with you. I will say, one of the things that I am just trying to do is just trying to get more information out there so that maybe the people I reach, I can say, hey, here's some good information. And also here are some other guys with some good information, right? And in the idea in my mind, I'm saying, let's really build up the community.

Clif (00:13:07) - So there's a wider knowledge and everything going on in, if I may give an example, there's another guy that's been drinking craft beer, doing much more here in Bangkok longer than I have. His name is, Craig Saurs. Sours?

Greg (00:13:24) - Oh, I've heard the name. Yeah, he's been on Twitter for a long time.

Clif (00:13:27) - Actually he recently started doing a, Substack where he will put out articles on different beer things that are happening in Bangkok. So I, I would be happy to say I get some good information from him, and he and I will occasionally exchange information.

Greg (00:13:44) - And I like this angle. So you're like you said, you're the guide. You're not the guy, you're the connector. Right? And you want to sort of get everyone together to make everyone stronger, to make the whole scene much more accessible.

Clif (00:13:57) - Like to think I'm just trying to get more and better information out there for people that might be trying to find it. I do not want to try to speak with authority, saying that I am the man that knows everything.

Clif (00:14:11) - I know what beers I like, and they are going to be different beers from other people. And that's one of my favorite parts about beer, is that I will happily argue with a friend about what makes this beer good or bad. But when it comes down to it, if you like to drink it, you like to drink it, and that's all that matters.

Greg (00:14:28) - This might be a silly question because I'm not a big beer guy. I can have maybe two, maybe three, and I'm done. What do you like so much about beer? Why is it become a passion of yours? Beyond that, tastes good after I work out all right.

Clif (00:14:41) - The simple answer is that the a beer is is a simple brewed concoction. that. Yes, you're right. For me, the flavor is great. I, I enjoy the little bit of buzz that comes with it, but what gets to me is being able to see what the brewer put into it, because each brewer can make.

Clif (00:15:05) - The same style of beer, but it's always going to be a little bit different from each other, from one brewer to a next. And I like to experience the different flavors. For example, if you like fried rice. Great. But what about adding different spices to it? Or putting or pairing it with something else? Just the different flavors and expressions of the dishes? I think that's a great way to think of with beer as well. And if I were to think on a bigger perspective, to me, beer is the everyman's drink. Okay? That wine very often comes across as, oh, you're rather snobby and oh, you're drinking good wine. And to be very fair, I'm happy for a good glass of wine, but it's just not as refreshing. And it's not as it's not the common man's drink of beer. So for me, I also really get that political part where I'm like, wait, if we're in a country, if we're in Bangkok, if we're in Thailand and we're not from Thailand, why aren't we drinking the local beer of the Thai people? For me, this is also about I want to put the money back into the economy that I'm living in.

Clif (00:16:16) - You know, I don't want to send my money back to the US. Back to the UK every time. Right? Right. I think there's always times for that. You know, if I'm in the mood for this type of beer, great. But in general, I want to have the option to be able to support the local brewers, the local economy, because that's where I'm living. And I just feel that's, that's that's a better way to be part of the local environment.

Greg (00:16:41) - And they also need our help too, right? Like I said, it's a fairly nascent industry. So the more we help them, the better it'll be, the better the quality will be, the more they'll be able to expand and grow and perhaps change the laws.

Clif (00:16:51) - There are there are some big names with a lot of money, working really hard to make sure that these small guys do not have an easy job.

Speaker 4 (00:17:00) - Interesting. The the less said about that, the better. But hey, I need a refill on this beer.

Clif (00:17:08) - Want a refill on the beer we're having, or did you want to try something a little different.

Greg (00:17:12) - Oh. How much is left in there.

Clif (00:17:14) - It's got a little bit left into that.

Greg (00:17:15) - Cool.

Greg (00:17:16) - So you're out updating this website and it's pretty good. It's a pretty good website. It's pretty comprehensive and it's updated fairly regularly. And as someone who has somewhat of a digital presence myself, I know what a huge pain in the ass that can be. What's what's it like being out there? What's what's your feedback from the local communities? What are they doing? What are they excited about? What are they pissed off about?

Clif (00:17:36) - That can be a difficult question to try to answer because there are so many things happening at the same time. I will say that a lot. A lot of what's happening in the beer community that I see is that most people are like, oh, there's craft beer in Thailand. Who knew? Which is is like, well, no, there's there's great stuff everywhere.

Clif (00:18:01) - I just have to find it. And how do I how do I find a way to say, hey, here are some ideas for good craft beer. some other difficult parts are that, there are there are certain laws where you're not allowed to advertise beer. Right. But you can advertise that you have a soda. So if your big beer company is advertising their soda and not their beer, they can definitely have their big name on billboards all across the city.

Speaker 4 (00:18:29) - But everyone, everyone.

Clif (00:18:30) - Knows, right? It's. Yeah, it's it's, you got to watch that. Yeah. I think sometimes an issue is also distribution, and that's, if you're not big into the beer industry, you don't know how it works. Distribution is a very important thing because it's it's how you get where it's made to where your customers are going to be. So sometimes it's a big deal that you have a distributor, that they do not carry any Thai beer, they only sell imported beer. And then. You have them, you see them do this thing where you go to a certain bar to, and they will only serve beer from that one distributor.

Clif (00:19:14) - And it's like, that is really uncool to.

Greg (00:19:18) - Like when I go into a restaurant, they only have Pepsi. I'm like, I wanted Coke, right? I'll settle for a Pepsi. But I really wanted a Coke.

Clif (00:19:26) - That's a great idea. But it's also, to me, infuriating when, you know, the bar advertises that it has 12 taps of soda and it's like, no, you got you're all serving the same thing.

Greg (00:19:39) - 12 taps, but they all output the same product.

Clif (00:19:41) - They're all putting out an easy, easy beer from afar.

Greg (00:19:45) - Right. So what are their new places opening quickly? is there a surplus of places to go? are people finding it difficult to establish themselves? What's what's the word on the street?

Clif (00:19:56) - You know, from my experience, there's there's places opening all the time, but there's also the idea that you don't always know how to find places. So not that I'm saying my my site is the best, but I do try to keep up a good list of places to try.

Clif (00:20:11) - And there when you're looking at some of the media in Bangkok, some of the local publishers will always talk about maybe the top five or the top ten beer bars and Bangkok, and it's always the same ones and it's like, come on guys, the city is bigger than just the ten bars that you wrote about four months ago. You can show some change, but if I were to have my opportunity to say a few bar names, like, I think Hays is a great bar in Chinatown, that they they serve a lot of local craft beer and they make some of their own. there's a place called Sheep Shank, which is right on the river, and that's dock 13 there. They're bar, so you can literally watch the sunset on the river and enjoy some local beers, art on their patio. And I think it's great. And I have no idea why it never gets never gets into the local media around here. Also, have you heard of the place called The Fat Cow?

Greg (00:21:11) - Yes, I've been there.

Greg (00:21:11) - The one out by, out in Thornbury. By the by the BTS. Yeah.

Clif (00:21:18) - There's four locations I think now, and. Well, you wouldn't always think of that as being a great beer location. They generally have at least eight taps or maybe six and some of their other locations, but they rotate their beers a lot. And because they've got four locations and the guy can choose which beers are coming in, he's able to bring in a lot of local beers that you don't find on tap elsewhere. And it's it's kind of a fun, fun time to go to the fat cow. And if you're getting a burger or getting a sandwich and be like, okay, what local beers do they have on tap? And sometimes you get there just in time that they kick a keg, and all of a sudden you got a whole nother beer that you have the opportunity to try that may not have heard before.

Greg (00:21:59) - Good burgers at the fat cow, too.

Greg (00:22:01) - So. We're getting a beer.

Greg (00:22:02) - I mean, that's that's that's comfort food if I've ever heard it.

Speaker 4 (00:22:05) - It makes for a.

Clif (00:22:06) - Good Tuesday night. Yeah. Other bars, for instance, to to follow up on the idea that sometimes you don't know where they are until you're there, there's a place that I think is really cold called 39 craft. And it's at the bottom of prom pong RTS station, and they are a coffee bar during the day, but in the evening, 5 p.m., they turn their lights down, they put on their neon, and they've got some great craft beers, and it's a well curated selection. So they've only got like maybe 12 taps. But you can tell they think about what they put on tap because they'll have like an IPA, they'll have a lager, they'll have something weird and different, they'll have an import, they'll have a domestic. So you have a variety of things to choose and then cool, it makes good. Another cool one is I'm not going to say this correctly. I think it's a beer product.

Clif (00:22:56) - Beer. Predict. Predict.

Clif (00:23:00) - There we go. And that one is really focusing on the local beer. And they're one of the ones where you look on their Facebook page and all the information is in tie. So sometimes you got to hit translate a few times and got to look at the picture. Sometimes they'll have the translations of the beer names and that sort. But not always easy to get to, but it's it's got a good long selection. They're pretty new. And there's also the bar in Chinatown, which it's, it's a small Chinatown craft beer bar, but it's always got a selection worth going to.

Greg (00:23:34) - I heard of that one to crack that bad boy open. There we go. Keep that flowing. What's. What are we drinking here?

Clif (00:23:42) - Well, let's start with the first one. Let's point out the first one was the crispy boy a hell's. This is a lager done by the brewing project. So one of your previous guests, Brian, Brian is part of beer vana and does the brewing project.

Clif (00:23:57) - And so this is a solid tall boy, easy drinking lager that if I'm just out just needing a beer, I'm happy to grab this sort of can. So just a good introductory beer.

Greg (00:24:08) - I know so little about beer that I'm often swayed by the design of the can. but when I was younger. What the hell is that? That's green.

Clif (00:24:17) - Yes, sir. The new beer that that I am pouring is green. This is a smoothie style beer.

Greg (00:24:24) - I don't know what the hell I'm getting into here, although I will say I was really impressed when they figured out how to mix chocolate with beer. That that pricked my ears up.

Cliff (00:24:31) - That's a fun one.

Greg (00:24:31) - Okay, I got to take a photo of this. We'll send this out to our patrons. but this looks like it looks like a celery smoothie.

Clif (00:24:38) - Well, to be fair, I'm not trying to make you healthy. Instead, there are styles of beers where they incorporate a lot of fruit smoothie, elements. So the beer that you're taking a picture of, it's by a brewery.

Clif (00:24:53) - Samatta, which, I gotta say, I'm a big fan of what they do. The first time I tried them, their their style of beer I thought was excellent. I was like, ooh, I'm gonna keep that name in my head. And, proud to say they are being brewed in Bangkok now, because I'm sure you knew there was a time where most craft beer in Thailand had to be brewed outside of the country, right?

Greg (00:25:15) - It would often be brewed just across the border in Cambodia and then trucked back into Thailand.

Clif (00:25:19) - Cambodia, Singapore, so that they would actually have to have taxes added because they were technically imported, but because of the changes in the law, some of these companies are able to kind of pull together and get smaller facilities, but still make it legal for them to be able to brew in country.

Greg (00:25:39) - Yeah. So I'm looking on this beer. This green one is called greeny Colada. Ingredients. Pineapple, mango, coconut, vanilla and blue Curacao syrup. Let's see what this tastes like.

Greg (00:25:53) - God damn that's good.

Greg (00:25:57) - No, this. It tastes like juice.

Greg (00:26:01) - Now, I got a lot of friends who are sort of beer purists. Shout out to my buddy Scott. and I don't know if they would like this. They'd probably think this was sort of sacrilegious.

Clif (00:26:11) - I think there's a very good chance of that. And I welcome that sort of discourse, because I will say this isn't my favorite style, and this is not what I would go for every time, but cracking one open and enjoying one. I mean, can you imagine sitting on the river, sitting in the sun, just enjoying something sweet and cool like this?

Greg (00:26:32) - Fruited, sour fruited sour?

Greg (00:26:35) - That was my nickname in high school. so yeah, this is, this is this is really interesting. And to be fair, I always go for the weirdest. I always go for the weirdest, brightest colored things. Like I said before, the ones with the best label design. When I was a kid, I wanted to design alcohol bottles.

Greg (00:26:50) - I thought that'd be a cool job, right. but, getting back to my previous thought about how a lot of these places are way out of town, I think for me, that signals that there is a broad support of this kind of stuff, like there's a there's craft beer fans all over Bangkok. They're not just tourists coming into Sukhumvit.

Clif (00:27:07) - Well, in fact, I would say that that is how a craft beer, if you will, movement has to be done in any country. that if you're going to have, you need the local support of the populace to be drinking your beers instead of trying to say, oh, well, I hope any tourists coming in might try the beer. So yes, when you have a lot of the craft beer places bars there, open up out towards the the, as I would call them, suburbs or the outer neighborhoods. If they're being successful. That's great because that means there's enough people in their local area going there to support them and enjoy drinking their beer.

Clif (00:27:46) - And if that makes me more of the outsider, that's like, listen, if it's outside the MRT or BTS, it makes it real hard to get home sometimes.

Greg (00:27:58) - Haha, yeah No kidding.

Clif (00:27:59) - So, and I think that's, that is one of the reasons why I, I try to include good places to go and try to be pretty comprehensive. But if, if you're if you are strictly a cab ride 30 minutes directly west of Bangkok, I'm like, I'm not sure there's much of a big point in putting you on the site.

Greg (00:28:21) - Let's talk about, the process of updating this website. Like I said, it's it's not an easy job. So you hear about a new place that's, sort of a bit outside your normal stomping grounds. What's the process like? How does it go from you hearing about it to to it appearing on your website?

Clif (00:28:35) - The process, I would say is, is the first thing I might do is be able to just find it, if it's coming across as an advertisement on Facebook, or one of the good ways is if I'm following one of the distributors, they'll often put out, hey, we have this cool new beer, and it is going to these different bars.

Clif (00:28:54) - And that makes it a great way to say, well, if that's where that craft beer is going, then that's going to be a good place to have on the website. So then I'll kind of look on the on the maps, I'll check in. What's your Facebook link? Sometimes it's just a matter of liking them so that maybe I can follow up with them. There are definitely times if I'm on the BTS heading to work, I'll just be able to take a screenshot of something and then in my downtime, be able to start putting more information together, right?

Greg (00:29:25) - And so you just go down there and sample it and give your reviews or.

Clif (00:29:32) - I really avoid trying to do too much reviewing.

Greg (00:29:35) - Editorializing.

Clif (00:29:36) - I try not to because if you and I are drinking as friends and yes, I'm very happy to say, well, I think this, but I don't. As in I am not the beer guide. I am trying to help get more information out there, so I don't want to put in a review of a place that maybe I didn't have a good time for some reason, or just because that bar serves.

Clif (00:29:59) - Let's take, for example, if there's a bar that serves only wheat beer, I am going to hate it. But there could be plenty of people that think that's a great idea.

Greg (00:30:09) - I like wheat beer.

Cliff As you should.

Greg (00:30:12) - That's funny. That reminds me. Years and years ago I was asked to be the food critic, the restaurant critic for a friend's website. They were starting up to review a certain part of Bangkok, and I did it for a few months. And then after a while, I realized that I was a total fraud because I'd be just as happy eating a gas station hot dog as I would with the filet mignon. And I was just like, what do I know about? Like, I go to a place I don't like how they cook the broccoli. Well, maybe that's how they cook broccoli now. Maybe that's how all the good places are doing it. I don't know, but all I know is that I didn't like it, and I felt like a bit of a fraud telling people that they also shouldn't like it because of my taste.

Clif (00:30:43) - I think you make a great point, which speaks to one of the reasons I don't want to review anything. I because I don't want to say this is the right way or this is the wrong way, you know, I know for a fact I am quite fond of some of the beers here that I brought tonight, and I know somebody I know very well is not a fan of all the same beers. That's totally fine. I think that's one of the best parts about craft beer, is that small differences can mean that I think it's good and somebody else is like, no, that's really not my style and I don't ever want to drink it again. And I think when times that I've had fun talking about beer, it's not going, oh, this is horrible and I really hate it, or this is the greatest thing ever. It becomes a question of, oh, what? What little tastes are you getting? Like what? What do you think? Like, do you think this is what the brewer meant? Because obviously if the brewer is producing so many thousand gallons of beer, this is really what they meant to come across.

Clif (00:31:45) - So I think that's kind of fun. Rather than saying, oh, everybody should like what I like and nobody should dislike what I dislike, you know?

Greg (00:31:55) - And that's a good thing about any, any sort of fan driven community that starts up is because there's, there's this shared language, there's shared love. And you might not always agree on everything, but at least you can debate it and push it forward. Man, I kind of freaking out over this beer, this green beer this summer. Samara beer.

Clif (00:32:12) - They samatta. I've I've met the brewer. His name is Choat. He is a cool guy. He is. He is a nice dad. Like I've seen him at beer events where he has a son with them. He's just a super cool guy. So to me it is the coolest thing to be able to know the guy that brews the beer and then have some really good brew beer that is brewed here in Bangkok.

Greg (00:32:33) - It's it's it's more the audacity of brewing something like this and calling it beer because it tastes like a cocktail to me.

Greg (00:32:38) - But I know that. Instagram Samatta brewing Samatta Samatta Brewing on Instagram. I'll check that out.

Clif (00:32:45) - Yeah. And, so I think that it's a little too late because I think, this episode will probably be not coming out for for a little while. There is an event on Saturday, which I have to say I'm rather excited about, because it's at another bar that I've not been to before. So I'll get to see a new place, and they're launching a number of different Thai craft beers. So, some of the ones I brought tonight, there's going to be something from the brewing project, which I think makes some great beers. you mentioned there can design. They've actually literally won awards for the design of their cans.

Greg (00:33:21) - I love a good design of an alcohol container. I don't know what. What is something about it? It just it just it's just so unique and bespoke and it's and and and artistic I love it.

Clif (00:33:29) - I love the idea that you can be really into beer and go. Also we need some really good beer art and I think that's great.

Clif (00:33:37) - the one we're drinking right now, Samara Samad is going to have some beer at that place. So, hoping to see see the brewer out there. Also a big brewery that I've been a fan of, which has been hard to get recently, is a beer called bond. Bangkok. Bangkok. Bayan. Bond.

Clif (00:33:58) - Yep. So you could actually get some of their beer at Hays, in Chinatown. But I think as of this recording, they've recently been picked up by beer. Honor. So they are going to be able to start having their beers more widely available, which makes me super happy because their style of beer is generally the big. They're really hazy, sometimes bitter beers that I think are excellent.

Greg (00:34:22) - I'm not a big hops guy. I don't don't like it any any. Stay away from those.

Clif (00:34:26) - And I think that's totally fine. when I was getting into beer, I was what was called at the time a malt monster. So, you know, stouts, porters, anything with a lot of umph and body.

Clif (00:34:38) - That was it. It took me a long time before I could hit, like, the IPAs, double IPAs and that sort.

Greg (00:34:44) - I'll tell you what. It's, coming off a bike ride at, chit beer on concrete and going right into a porn milk stout is.

Cliff (00:34:51) - Oh, that sounds great.

Greg (00:34:52) - It gives you a bit of a buzz.

Cliff (00:34:53) - I bet, I bet.

Greg (00:34:56) - Well, well, Cliff, this is a really cool site, and I'm glad we got to chat about it. as we're closing down here. What? What do you think the the future looks like for Thailand's craft beer industry? Have you seen good increasing momentum? Do you think things are going to shrink again? Do you think the the like what's the outlook?

Clif (00:35:14) - to be totally honest, I'm, I'm pretty positive on the outlook because as of recently, there have been some new bars that have been opening. as we said, Chit Beer is opening like a third location here in Bangkok. Tao has his place that he seemed to be doing very well.

Clif (00:35:31) - beer is one of the distributors that's doing very well. And also there's another distributor called Group B, which they're out of the United People's Brewpub, which, they're brewing their own beer here in Bangkok. You can go visit them. They're great people. They got some good food. They're distributing strictly Thai craft beer. And this group also puts on what's called a Thai craft beer week. And they did this in October. So for me, I see just there's there's going to be more stuff going on. Part of part of my wish if I, if I had a way to be king of beer, I would I would like to try to unite the clans. Because at times like this, when you have when the stranglehold is really held by the big monopolies, the big brewing companies, sometimes the smaller, the smaller breweries and even the beer drinkers themselves, it can be a very fragmented place. And so I hope that I can keep supporting the community and maybe help people connect so that the, so that the road ahead remains very rosy and sunny.

Clif (00:36:39) - For Thai craft.

Greg (00:36:41) - Rising tide lifts all boats, especially if that tide is right.

Clif (00:36:46) - And get that tide real high.

Greg (00:36:47) - Last question before we go. What do you think about the prices? Now the prices are sometimes a little bit offputting to me. Recently I was out with a buddy and we had, we had a pint of Guinness at a place on Ceylon and it was 380, 360 bought.

Greg (00:37:01) - 15.

Clif (00:37:02) - Yeah. What's you know, I don't I really don't have good answers on the price of beer. I think sometimes it has to come down to, you know, you're not going to be able to transport a good beer super cheap. You can't put a good beer in the back of a pickup truck on a hot, sunny day and hope that it arrives in time. You know you can't. You can't put cheap ingredients into a beer and hope you get something good out, you know? So while I recognize, yeah, a lot of people would be like, oh, the beer is just too expensive, I get it, I get it.

Clif (00:37:40) - But at the same time, I'm not, you know, I'm not throwing back ten craft beers in a night just for fun and.

Greg (00:37:49) - Quality over quantity.

Clif (00:37:51) - It is, and I, I would agree with you that usually when I'm out drinking, unless I've got that thirst most nights, if I'm out for a few beers, it's just a few beers. It's 2 or 3 beers. I recognize it's going to be a little more expensive, but, you know, I'd, I'd I'm happy to pay for having a little bit of a better quality. And knowing that especially some of these beers are going to stay in town and maybe support the local industry. Yeah, makes me able to, feel a little bit better and convince myself maybe I can have one more. It's going to make everybody's life better.

Greg (00:38:24) - It's funny how craft beer is sort of moving towards the wine thing. Like no one goes out and has eight glasses of wine, right? Smashed if you do that. But it's more like I'll have a couple glasses of wine, and now it's like, I'll have a couple of craft beers and just take the edge off and enjoy them.

Clif (00:38:37) - Yeah, well, I, I agree that there are many, many similarities in beer and wine that you don't. You don't slug back a glass of wine. Right. You want to sip because it's got a lot of flavor. And so I'd, I'd rather sip the beer, enjoy the flavor if I need to get drunk. Well, there's going to be a shot glass, a hard alcohol somewhere. I don't need a beer to do that. That'll just make me use the bathroom sooner.

Greg (00:39:00) - So where do people find you? More information. What's the website.

Clif (00:39:03) - So again, if you just look up Bangkok Beer Guide. Bangkok. Your guide.com is the website address. I'm on Facebook, Instagram and even TikTok and I'm happy to talk. I'm happy to try to help anybody looking for beer. And yeah, just happy to support the local community best as I can.

Greg (00:39:24) - All right, man, I'm going to turn the recording off right now. But let's talk about going to Tyler's place and, sampling some brews there.

Greg (00:39:29) - Absolutely.

Clif (00:39:30) - They got some good local food, too.

Greg (00:39:32) - Thanks for coming on, man.

Clif (00:39:33) - Yeah, thanks for having me.

Ed (00:39:44) - So, dude, until you tell me about this. I didn't even know about this guide. And so when I checked out the website, it is damn good. It's very comprehensive.

Greg (00:39:51) - Yeah, man, it takes a lot of time and effort to keep something like that up to date. And I guess the reward, of course, is that you get to drink beer all over the place. If you were like reviewing for sure or something for sure.

Ed (00:40:01) - And it is amazing that really our podcast, when you listed all the people we've had, our podcast is a pretty good, go to record of the history of craft beer in Thailand. We're on top of it, man.

Greg (00:40:13) - That's right. I love, of course, I left out Matthew from Fatty's, and he's not a beer guy himself, but you can get some good craft beer there as well, of course.

Ed (00:40:19) - Sure. and the.

Greg (00:40:20) - Other,

Ed (00:40:21) - The other weird twist is, in my documentary film class, this semester, one team of students is due to made a short documentary film about this whole craft beer scene and the story and the legality and, how people from Parliament, although I'm not sure they know about the Bangkok Beer Guide, I have to let them know about it.

Greg (00:40:42) - Yeah, they should check it out. It's it's really interesting. And of course, as you heard in the interview, Cliff was kind enough to bring along a few different brews for us to to down while we talked. And man, I went off on it. But that green beer he brought, it was delicious. It was. It looked like a celery smoothie.

Ed (00:40:59) - Interesting. And and it was made out of coconut.

Greg (00:41:02) - No, it was made out of, like, pineapple and fruit juices and stuff. It was almost like a cocktail. But he. I couldn't believe it when he was like, here's a beer. And he poured it out and it was bright green.

Greg (00:41:13) - But I mean, like, seriously, I've been thinking about it ever since. I gotta find where they sell it and buy some more.

Ed (00:41:18) - Well, the creativity is definitely out there as as the interview showed, you know, from from my, my students who made this a short documentary film. They quoted a, someone speaking in parliament, Thai parliament, about, you know, bitching about the restrictive laws as you guys talked about. But they, they cited some crazy number for the number of craft beers and micro beers in Japan. It was some insane number, like 50,000. Really? Like, like, way more than you would think. compared to the the number of legal beers brewed in Thailand is, is under ten or something. You know, it's like in terms of the main beers. So the the difference is insane. And obviously they're not enforcing a lot of the laws, but, man, those laws really need to change.

Greg (00:42:10) - Yeah. And I think we're starting to see like, it's sort of like with the weed thing.

Greg (00:42:14) - Right? You can try to put that genie back in the bottle, but at a certain point, it's just you can't hold back that that that pressure, that flow, that love of this culture. And I think it's only going to improve as time goes on. And thanks to people like Cliff and a lot of other people who are doing great stuff in the scene. So yeah, thanks for coming on the show, Cliff. It was good to chat. Thanks for bringing along those cool beers. And, yeah, we'll we'll keep we'll keep at it sampling and sampling throughout the city for sure.

Ed (00:42:40) - Thank you. Cliff. Great website. Yeah.

Greg (00:42:43) - All right, let's get into some love, loathe or live with where one of us picks a particular aspect of living in Bangkok, which we discuss to decide if it's something we love about living here, loathe about living here, or have come to accept as something that we just have to learn to live with, no matter how we feel about it. This week, it's my turn now.

Greg (00:42:58) - For those of you who haven't listened to the bonus show, you heard me bitching about these little flying ant mosquito things in my in my condo. There are tons of I don't know where they're coming from, but they're suddenly all over the place. So, I am hoping. I am hoping that, Queen Bob, who I have named my gecko, who lives in my kitchen, will get a healthy meal tonight. So that's my question. And what do you think of the little ginger jokes? The geckos that climb all over the walls and houses and stuff here in Thailand. Are you a fan or.

Ed (00:43:29) - Oh, funny. Interesting. they've actually never bothered me at all. I know some people are bothered by them. Some Thai people, some Thai girls really don't like them or think they're dirty. and of course there's some, there's some superstitions about them, but, I don't know, they never bothered me. I this is going to be a tough one. I, I'm not sure I could say love.

Ed (00:43:49) - I mean, maybe if I had, I guess to a certain extent, if they are, if they are eating mosquitoes or other annoying bugs, then I guess you could say, like you could appreciate them, right? But I think I probably just kind of have to go with the live with, but they definitely have never bothered me. But I know that some people, they look at them as cockroaches, but to me cockroaches are way worse.

Greg (00:44:12) - Oh dude, a million times worse. You right though. So some people see a gecko on the wall and they lose their mind. They freak out, but I know I, I love them, I think I always try to catch them. I think they're they're cute. I think they're like adorable little animals. They're helpful in your house. Like you said, they eat bugs. I love them. I think they're cool.

Ed (00:44:33) - I don't know about Kuna. Adorable. So I'm not sure I can join you. So you're a love on this one.

Greg (00:44:37) - Cute and adorable. Pick one up. You. You know what you do? You get your little finger and you put it under there. I put it under their chin. And they're probably terrified and think you're going to kill them. But it looks cute. And I think they're adorable little creatures, you know, love.

Ed (00:44:51) - Well, I, I'm with you on that. There's nothing really offensive about them. I don't, so I don't get that. but, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go live with. Yeah.

Greg (00:45:01) - See if I've done. If I would have done cockroaches, then of course it would have been a hard loathe from both of us, obviously. So that's proof that they are way better than cockroaches.

Ed (00:45:11) - Alrighty. Okay. A final thanks to our patrons who support the show. Patrons get a ton of cool perks and the warm, fuzzy feeling knowing that they're helping and are never ending. Quest for cool content? Find out more by clicking support on our website and connect with us online.

Ed (00:45:26) - Where Bangkok podcast and social media Bangkok podcast.com on the web or simply Bangkok Podcast at gmail.com. We love hearing from our listeners and always reply to our messages.

Greg (00:45:38) - Yeah baby! You can also listen to each episode on YouTube. You can send us a voicemail through our website that will feature on the show. See me on threads at BC. Greg, thank you for listening. Everyone. Take it easy out there. Enjoy the cool weather and the rain when it comes. We'll see you back here next week, no doubt.