Ed’s City Review: Bangkok vs Hong Kong - Which One Comes Out on Top? [S7.E24]

Greg (00:00:05) - On this episode Ed fills us in on what he saw on his recent trip to Hong Kong, and we discuss how it measures up to Bangkok.

Ed (00:00:11) - So if you're curious to hear a complete newbies take on Hong Kong, you'll love this episode of the Bangkok Podcast.

Greg (00:00:32) - Sawat dee krap. And welcome to the Bangkok Podcast. My name is Greg Jorgensen, a Canadian who came to Thailand in 2001 on a quest to find some comfortable, loose fitting trousers, perhaps with animal designs of some kind, but has yet to find anything fitting that description.

Ed (00:00:48) - Yeah, I've never seen anything like that, man. Maybe. Maybe should invent something.

Greg (00:00:51) - I should, I should, yeah, that sounds like a good idea. Maybe some light material. I think it'd be popular.

Ed (00:00:56) - Yeah, like like like a famous Thai animal. Like, I don't know, like maybe an elephant or something. Mongoose?

Greg (00:01:00) - Sure. Yeah.

Ed (00:01:02) - You know, mongoose. I don't know.

Greg (00:01:04) - If we even have those in Thailand, you know.

Ed (00:01:06) - And I am Ed Knuth an American who came to Thailand on a one year teaching contract 23 years ago, fell in love with wondering about the outcome of various Thai superstitions such as astrology, tarot cards, and the Thai Constitutional Court.

Ed (00:01:21) - That's funny dude, there's some big cases. There's some big cases coming up. And honestly, it's like, you know, I feel like I want to throw some sticks on the ground to, like, predict what they're going to say. I mean, who knows what the hell they're going to say, right?

Greg (00:01:36) - I'm going to come over to your place one time. You're going to be there in like a little loincloth, dancing round, like reading the bones, which kind of bone through your nose.

Ed (00:01:44) - That's how it is. Like, I, I cannot make any sense. as an American lawyer, I have to admit that the Thai Constitutional Court, they're they're they're doing their own thing. Let's just leave it at that.

Greg (00:01:53) - Well, it seems like a high courts around the world are in somewhat of a unique position these days. They're all doing their own thing, so. Agreed.

Ed (00:02:00) - Agreed. All righty. We want to give a big thanks to all of our patrons who support the show. Patrons get every episode a day early, behind the scenes photos of our interviews, a heads up to send questions to upcoming guests, and access to our discord server to chat with me, Greg, and other listeners around the world.

Ed (00:02:16) - But best of all, patrons also get an unscripted, uncensored bonus episode every week where we riff on current events and Bangkok topics. On this week's bonus show, we chatted about Greg's marathon viewing session of the Lord of the rings extended editions with his son, and that's a commitment what my students favorite movies say about them, and Thai youth in general, and a fantastic story about two of our patrons, Pim and Stephanie, who met through the show. Our show became best friends and are now visiting Thailand planning PIMs wedding to her man Colin. We had dinner with them last week and they brought us each a bottle of maple syrup. So obviously the highest of high fives to Pim and Stephanie.

Greg (00:03:01) - I had some of that on my cornflakes the other day. Damn fine Maple syrup.

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Greg (00:03:18) - Right? And as always, if you have a comment, a show idea, or just want to say hi, head to Bangkok podcast.com and click the little microphone button on the bottom right to leave us a voicemail that we will play on the show.

Greg (00:03:28) - All righty then. Well, on this episode, we are back in the swing of things after Ed's triumphant return from the fascinating city of Hong Kong. I've been to Hong Kong a few times and find it to be an extremely interesting place. We even have a few listeners there. Shout out to Daniel. I have to be honest though, I haven't been back in a handful of years, and I'm kind of wondering if the recent expansion of government powers in the city has changed its vibe, its livability, and indeed its enjoyment for tourists. Now, thankfully, those memories are still fresh in your mind, so we thought it'd be interesting to compare your impressions with that of Bangkok. And this, of course, is a sequel to season three, episode 72, where Ed compared Bangkok to Phnom Penh. So this seems to be somewhat of a tradition for the Bangkok Podcast. So, Ed, let's get into it. Tell us a little bit about your trip to Hong Kong. How does it compare to our home city?

Ed (00:04:14) - Well, the first thing I want to make clear is I'm a complete newbie in Hong Kong.

Ed (00:04:18) - As listeners know, I'm not that big of a traveler. I wish I was. I think traveling is cool, but the truth is, I just don't do it that much. Like a lot of times during my holidays time off, I just want to chill. Like for me it's a big deal to to get down to, maybe jump to and beach, you know, like two hours or to two hours away. Like if I can get two hours outside of Bangkok, I feel like I've accomplished something. You know, that's an epic. That's like a Lord of the rings type journey for me. You know, I made it to Jom Tien. so I'm not the epic traveler that I mean. Greg, you're much more of an epic traveler. But you and I have friends who are, like, insanely epic travelers who've been everywhere. I'm not that guy. And my second caveat is I was only there for about two and a half days. I brought 15 students there from a university. It's essentially kind of a field trip, but it wasn't really for a class or anything.

Ed (00:05:09) - It was kind of a free vacation for the kids. kind of maybe a little bonding exercise. And out of the 15 students, I think 3 or 4 of them had been to Hong Kong before. So for most of them, it was their first trip like it was for me.

Greg (00:05:22) - Cool, cool.

Ed (00:05:23) - and I, of course, was familiar with Hong Kong from movies and, you know, TV shows. I there were a lot of things that I went there that I recognized, like, okay. Do that. But the bottom line is I didn't read much. I just kind of got on the plane and showed up. So, I thought it might be cool to share my my impressions. So are you ready? Can you handle.

Greg (00:05:43) - This? I'm looking forward to it. Because, we were just chatting a few minutes ago before we started recording. You know, it's easy to sort of get complacent in Bangkok or anywhere, really, and just sort of sit there. But, it's especially potent when you are in a city that you didn't grow up in, like an expat in another city, and you've come to earn enough street cred in that city to understand how things work.

Greg (00:06:03) - And you're like, okay, I've got a handle on Bangkok now I get it. And then you go to a new place and you're you're at square one again. You're a total noob and you don't know how anything works. And it's it can be quite disorienting.

Ed (00:06:16) - That's a very good point. like, I just felt like I lost all my game, like my force powers had been. My force powers have been diminished.

Greg (00:06:24) - That's right, that's right.

Ed (00:06:27) - so I'm going to start out positively because I it's going to turn out I've got a lot of negative things to say about Hong Kong. It's just I'm just trying to keep it real. But I'll I'll start out off on a positive foot. It is a ridiculously photogenic city. I mean, just geographically, I kind of knew this already from like, all the movies and TV shows, but the islands having the sea right there, having mountains, it. I mean, to me it's like a photographer's dream. It's a beautiful I mean, it's not always beautiful.

Ed (00:06:57) - I mean, there's a lot of the skyscraper thing, but it's just a cool looking city.

Greg (00:07:03) - I agree. And it's it's got a real Bladerunner vibe. And the thing about Hong Kong is that you can take photos that look like, you know, a futuristic Star Trek planet, and then you can turn around and take photos that look like a 1950s Shaw Brothers slum.

Ed (00:07:19) - That's right. It's like a Chinese market or something. I mean, it really, you know, and I, you know, I love taking pictures in Bangkok and I, I know more places to take pictures of Bangkok because I know Bangkok so much better. But Hong Kong is the first city that had been to where I was like, oh shit, like, this might be. I mean, so I wasn't there long enough to really explore the nooks and crannies, but I was there long enough to realize there's a shitload of nooks and crannies in in Hong Kong. Oh, man.

Greg (00:07:48) - Yeah, it's it's.

Ed (00:07:49) - Just I didn't I, I didn't have time to explore it and I it's, I think it's the first city I've been to where I was thinking like, okay, this is, this is more of a photographer's dream than Bangkok is.

Ed (00:08:02) - And I love taking pictures in Bangkok. It's a you got to give Hong Kong the edge. It's just. It's just the geography. It's like such a huge advantage. It's so cool to have to be right there. You know, you and I have talked a lot about how we think Bangkok does not take advantage of the river enough. Right. But but. Right. But Hong Kong does take advantage of all the water they have. Like all the, you know, you basically can feel like you're at the sea. And then you look across and there's more tall buildings over there and it's it's just cool. and like, water is just part of the city, like massive bodies of water with a legitimate beach, like, basically right in the middle of the city. I mean, it's not gigantically huge, but like a legitimate, proper sand beach is, like, literally like, right in the middle of the city, which is something Bangkok doesn't have.

Greg (00:08:50) - They've, they've they've really nailed their water transportation to.

Greg (00:08:53) - Right. The ferries. Yeah. They saw the Star Ferry or something.

Ed (00:08:56) - And then of course it's, it's mountainous. So I mean, you made the point to me, earlier, you know, before the show started that, you know, it has some relationship to, like, Vancouver, right? It's got mountains and sea right there.

Greg (00:09:09) - Yeah. I've said it's it's sort of a cross between the best parts of Bangkok and the best parts of Vancouver. It's a financial center. It's it's on the ocean. It's got a lot of really cool, geography, mountains in the background. But it's also got that funky Asian vibe that you find in Bangkok and the street markets and that energy. So, I think, I think it's an incredibly cool city. When I was there and the last time I was there was probably ten years ago. So lots of lots has changed. But I just I just remember thinking like, oh, they've got the double decker buses, the trams, the boats, the subways.

Greg (00:09:40) - That's incredible. They've got the octopus card that that ties it all together. You know, like the single card you can use on a bus, a tram, a boat, whatever.

Ed (00:09:48) - I was, I was on a tour half the time, so I didn't. I didn't, have to use a card or anything, but that sounds cool. We've we've often talked about how Bangkok needs that, for sure.

Greg (00:09:56) - God, that's. I mean, every other country in the world or every other city in the world has figured it out. But but yeah, I thought it was a really cool city. And it's like a lot of, ex colonial cities. A lot of people speak English, so it's easy to get around. Did you talk a lot to, to any like locals or.

Ed (00:10:11) - Well, I haven't exhausted the positive things to have to say, but that was my main positive thing is that it's just kind of a cool city. It's kind of a cool city and a great place to take pictures.

Ed (00:10:22) - Geographically awesome. But then there were a lot of other things that I just did not like compared to Bangkok. Number one thing I didn't like is the. A local. People never freaking smile. Like even customer service staff. They are like a seer. They are like a serious faced culture and it became a little bit of a joke I was. Now I had two different tour guides, both local Hong Kong ers, and they had personality. And of course they smiled. But I was teasing them about how like Hong Kong people don't smile. And they were like, no, no, no, we don't smile. And then every place, you know, we went on the tour, you know, we interact with customer service people and I'd be like, you see, they're not smiling. And the tour guide would like, laugh like, I'm not. I'm not joking. After two and a half days, zero customer service people smiled like when greeting me. Zero. It wasn't until the very last thing I did, which is like the cable car up to like the Long Ping temple with like the giant Buddha.

Ed (00:11:20) - Finally we went to a restaurant and like the girl standing there like had a big smile on her face and I was like, oh my God, you're smiling like it's.

Greg (00:11:26) - Because it's because she knew you were leaving.

Ed (00:11:28) - Yeah. She's like, yeah, you're last hour in Hong Kong and whatever. Okay. It is what it is. I found the service professional. It wasn't like the service was bad, but man, I missed the Thai smile. Like I got to say that I. And it was something that I picked. It was something that I picked up on right away. Because when I, when we walked into the hotel, I got 15 kids with me, you know, you know, there's a tour guide there and there's some pre-arranged things, but it's like a big deal. You know, we're showing up. We just got off the plane. We've got bags. We're like a big group. And, you know, we're arriving and I'm. I'm first in line. And and I said to the woman, you know, they're sitting there and I'm like.

Ed (00:12:07) - And I'm like. Hi. How are you? You know, just a basic, friendly greeting. And and she she, like, with a totally, like, disinterested look on her face. She goes. Yeah. Like, you know, her. She was basically saying like, yeah, I get it, okay, I get it. You're being friendly. But like what? Like, who are you? Like, where's your passport? Welcome.

Greg (00:12:29) - Welcome to me. Trying to flirt in high school. Yeah. She's like okay.

Ed (00:12:32) - Yeah. yeah. Can we get on with this? And I'm like, Holy shit, that was my first customer service person. And then it was just essentially like that the whole time. Like serious faced people. confirmed by the tour guides, like the tour guides were like, yeah, that's just kind of how like we do things interesting. So whatever, it just rub me. It rubbed me the wrong way. I'm spoiled in, in in Thailand. Okay.

Ed (00:12:56) - So that's number one second thing. That was fascinating. Now I guess this is maybe my third caveat of all my caveats. The only two local people that I talked to extensively were the tour guides, so I have no idea if these guys are representative. I interacted with other local people but didn't get a chance to meet them or hang out. So this is all coming from the tour guys, what they talked about on the tour, and then in my discussions with them. Okay, so here's something else that's fascinating. These guys like openly talked about money in a way that like even Thais don't do it and I don't know. And again, I know there's cliches about the Chinese being business and money oriented, but damn, it really seemed to parents like on the tour, like which to me is not normal on a tourist tour. They're like those condos start at like 5 million HKD. This is this this area is only for rich people. Like it was. It was just kind of fascinating that they there was just open discussion of money, who has money and who lives where.

Ed (00:14:01) - I don't know it. Again, it kind of rubbed me a little bit the wrong way. It's like, you know, when I'm a tourist on a tour, I want to hear history and interesting facts, like, could you imagine taking someone like, okay, like you were just talking about Kim and Stephanie, like, imagine walking around Bangkok and instead of taking them to Thailand, or you're like, okay, the condos over here are this much the kind of whatever it was like. The tour guide spent half their time talking about money.

Greg (00:14:25) - Yeah, that's that's kind of probably a bit off putting. But I mean, Hong Kong is is one of like four major financial nerve centers of the entire planet. So no, it is maybe that's like infused down into the culture kind of thing.

Ed (00:14:41) - Well I got okay. I got the impression, I mean, this is a related topic and this is what I got from. So on the last day, it was kind of cool. I had about an hour just hanging out with one of the tour guides while my kids were running around the mall, and so it was a little bit more buddy buddy talk, right? and man, he was complaining about, I, you know, Hong Kong is an expensive place to live. There's a lot of wealth there. But, man, if you're not rich, it is a rough city. Like the vibe I got from him is that it's kind of like Manhattan. So it's not like Bangkok. Like, we've talked many times about how it's not that hard to live in Bangkok if you're making 30 or 40,000 a month, right? I'm not saying you're going to have a great life, but you can make it. Yeah, and have done it. 30 or 40,000. Yeah, you've done it. but man. So this tour guide, this poor tour guide, you know, he was just saying, like, how rough it is. Like, you know, it's not I don't think they have as many options for middle class people or whatever. You want a working class people. and maybe that was why they were talking about money so much, I don't know.

Ed (00:15:50) - So there was open discussion, like just open discussion of money and social status in a way that to me, it didn't it wasn't appropriate on the Couteur.

Greg (00:15:59) - Interesting. Well, that that also is something that has in common with Vancouver because Vancouver is so, you know, comically, preposterously expensive that.

Ed (00:16:10) - Oh it is. I didn't know that. I didn't know that.

Greg (00:16:11) - Oh yeah, I do. It's one of the most expensive cities in the world. It's, it's it's a real problem there. And there's like, you know, I've got friends and family that lived there and it is it is an issue. It is something that everyone is concerned about. Not only rent, but then you've got groceries and transport and things like that, like it's New York and style expensive. So but so it's like it limited. The middle class has been eliminated there. There's a huge population of homeless and drug addiction is a big problem. And of course the weather is quite mild in Vancouver. So a lot of people go there.

Greg (00:16:41) - So if you're rich, Vancouver is a good city to live, but if you're not, it can probably be pretty bad.

Ed (00:16:48) - I mean, that was my vibe, you know, again, two and a half days and I'm sure listeners out there, there's some Hong Kong experts out there. So I'm sure there's a way to live in Hong Kong without a lot of money. But, I was a little bit surprised at, at at how much money was just talked about among these two Hong Kong tour guides. Interesting. and and then so no smile, open discussion of money. And then the third thing that kind of blew me away. And this, this has two sides to the coin. maybe I'll do the positive first. There's obviously great food in Hong Kong. There's kind of international restaurants everywhere, with of course like a leaning towards Asian food, of course, but tons of Korean and Japanese food. and then of course Western restaurants as well. So that's good. So I got the impression Hong Kong has great food.

Ed (00:17:38) - So okay, not a big surprise, but oh my god. On our tour, several of our meals were at Hong Kong restaurants, like apparently famous Hong Kong restaurants were eating local Hong Kong food. And I'm just going to say this, I'm just trying to keep it real. It's the worst local cuisine I've ever had in my entire life. It's the most it's the most bland food. And basically all my students agreed. You know, it's like, I mean, you know, I'm vegetarian, so I order, you know, noodles. And they literally bring a bowl of water and noodles and there's there's nothing else in there. Like there's no vegetables, there's no spices, there's no onion, there's no ginger. And on the table there's no condiments, you know. You know, they bring my students like a plate, you know, with ten slices of pork. And that's it. Like, the food is shockingly plain. It's literally as plain as you can be. And you would think, okay, so the food is plain.

Ed (00:18:40) - So it's, it's, it's a, it's a blank palette. It's a blank slate. And then you can add all these spice to it. There's no condiments on the table zero zero condiments. There's no there's no chili. There's no salt that there's literally no salt and sugar on the table. You can ask for it. But it's the most bland food. And you know, and you know, the Thai word for a bland is I'm going to mispronounce it. But just something like git. Yeah. and my students were just saying I was joking with my students about like, because I kept hearing them say like, just mock like, but but again, like I said, you then walk across the street to a Korean barbecue and my students were like, in.

Greg (00:19:24) - Heaven, right? Right.

Ed (00:19:26) - So listeners out there just correct me if I miss something. you know, I mean, I mean, it's not bad in the sense like the food wasn't like low quality. It's just it seemed to be to me, it seemed on the other spectrum of Thai food, where I feel like Thai Thai people are kind of obsessed with, I want every bite to be like sweet, spicy, sour, acidic, like, it's like it's just overwhelming flavor.

Ed (00:19:52) - And my take on Hong Kong food is that it's the blandest food I've ever had in my life.

Greg (00:19:58) - That's so funny, man. Yeah, I you know, I totally agree. And I'm happy to be proven wrong. And all my trips to to Hong Kong, I remember having good food again. It was a long time ago, so I can't remember exactly what it was. But it's funny when I think of Chinese food, what I think about is a small bowl of plain white rice with a bony piece of chicken on top, with very little meat on it. That's the image that pops into my head. Yeah.

Ed (00:20:23) - That's it. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's just it's just plain. Yeah. You know, it's just very, very plain and straightforward and.

Greg (00:20:29) - Maybe, maybe I've just had bad luck or I haven't put the right effort into finding it. But no, that's it. I find I find Hong Kong food incredibly basic. And there's no there's nothing to write home about about it.

Ed (00:20:40) - Okay. Thank you. Now again, walk across the street and there's there's a lot of international food there. And so I think it's a it's a good eating city. It's just a little bit odd that the local cuisine itself is just not that interesting. Yeah.

Greg (00:20:55) - Yeah I totally agree.

Ed (00:20:56) - Okay. My next point, which which I found very surprising and this is not a pro or con, it's just an odd thing. and again small sample of two tour guides. They were both openly anti-Chinese anti mainland and they brought stuff up. So it's not like me or my students to ask any questions about politics. They brought stuff up and, and regularly like my students commented to me about it really like and I know you know, I know obviously a little bit about Hong Kong's history. I know that the British gave up control of the island in, what, 97, 98 or 99, I can't remember 99. and then now it's now I think it's, so it's officially part of China, but I think they have like a 50 year intermediate period where they have the, one country, two systems.

Ed (00:21:49) - So Hong Kong is supposed to still have its own, like local democracy. But I think China has stepped on that a lot. So they're they're kind of still supposed to be in control. But I think they're they have a lot less control than they thought they would have. Right. but I didn't know. I, I didn't realize and again, it's just two guys. but man, were they anti-Chinese. I mean, they said stuff like, you know, they're talking to my students. This is a tour. And they would, you know, they said stuff like. Hey, so how many of you guys, like, speak Mandarin? You know, and then like, three of my students, like, raise their hand, you know, and and then the tour guide says, don't speak it while you're here.

Greg (00:22:32) - And they laugh and then they're like, I'm serious.

Ed (00:22:34) - I don't know, they they said, don't speak Mandarin. And I mean, I don't really want to say all the different stuff they said.

Ed (00:22:40) - I mean, they weren't, I don't want to exaggerate. They weren't like, vile or like super harsh, but they, they did say stuff like, we don't like Chinese people here. Like they just said that.

Greg (00:22:51) - Interesting. Yeah, it was just I just checked it was 97 and the handover, that was. But, Yeah, I just, I mean, China to visit as a country is very low on my list. I've met lots of Chinese people. I used to work a lot of Chinese people have some Chinese friends, like from the mainland, and they're all very nice and cool people. And I understand that the Chinese people are not the Chinese government, but I read a lot about it and I'm not on board with a lot of it. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth. So my enthusiasm for visiting mainland China is is probably quite low. right. And I and I see that Hong Kong is sort of slowly being sort of like blob like absorbed into the, into the main body of the country.

Ed (00:23:30) - In the end, I found it kind of sad. And when, when I had my sit down with one of the tour guides at the end, it was kind of sad, like he basically said, you know, I've got he basically said, I got I either have to leave or just eat it, you know, just like accepted. So I mean, obviously a lot of, a lot of Hong Kong people have left. I think the British offered them citizenship. Right. I think I think if you were a proper resident of Hong Kong, like someone who's born there, I think you can leave and become a British citizen.

Greg (00:23:58) - Yeah, I think so. I think so, yeah. So a lot of a lot of them left for, for Vancouver actually. That's why the slang term for, for Vancouver and Canada is Hong Couvre.

Ed (00:24:08) - Oh funny, I kind of knew this already, but it became more apparent being there and hanging out with with, with these tour guides is that clearly Hong Kong people, they they have their own identity.

Ed (00:24:20) - I mean, they they are they are Chinese, like ethnically, whatever. But, you know, the experience of being a, you know, you know, the British rule there, they clearly have their own identity. You know, they speak Cantonese, not Mandarin. Even the most Chinese people speak Mandarin, but I didn't I just did not expect the the open anti-Chinese thing that they bring up. You know, politics is a is a faux pas, like, you're not supposed to bring up politics with strangers like on a tour guide. People don't. People don't want to hear about politics.

Greg (00:24:51) - The next one, he's like, so what? Religion is everyone? Damn.

Ed (00:24:54) - That's right, that's right. so that's not really a pro or con or I guess in a way it's I would say it's sad for local people there. And I did get that vibe. the other thing that was interesting, which the tour guides actually talked about is, damn, there was a lot of superstitious stuff like, I know, I know, people like to say like, oh, Thailand is a very superstitious country.

Ed (00:25:20) - Damn. Like the people in Hong Kong like you know, I, I probably would have guessed incorrectly. I would have guessed this. I would have said, well, you know, Hong Kong's had much more of a Western influence than the rest of China, you know, you know, British colony for a long time or whatever you want to call it, or under British rule for a long time, they're probably going to be like, you know, they're also business oriented. It's a financial center. They're very well educated. So this is going to be like. Way more rational than mainland China. That's honestly, that's probably what I would have guessed. But I would have been wrong. I would have been wrong. It's like the tour guide talk constantly talked about superstitious stuff and and constantly talked about how superstitious Hong Kong people are. so it was kind of fascinating, like like it was a big part of their patter and conversation, like as we went from here to here, like in between talking about how expensive certain condos were.

Ed (00:26:13) - He would talk about, like, for good luck, do this, you know, to get the blessing of this thing, do this thing. it was it was constant. Constant. And he he talked about feng shui, like, just constant discussion of superstitious stuff.

Greg (00:26:27) - You don't see that here, do you? I mean, it's it's it's mentioned and it's very common, but it's not something that you hear about all the time in everyday conversation.

Ed (00:26:35) - I don't think a tour guide would bring it up or talk about it, you know. You know, I don't know. I'm not saying Hong Kongers are more superstitious than Thais. It's just something that I don't know. I know, like the Chinese in general have a reputation of being superstitious. I just would have thought Hong Kong might have been the exception. It's more westernized, it's more westernized, more educated. But, no, that is not true. Interesting.

Greg (00:27:01) - All right, all right. That's cool.

Ed (00:27:04) - the other thing I noticed, and this is, you know, particularly to me, is for a tourist driven city, it's there's not a lot of vegetarian food there.

Ed (00:27:15) - And when we were at the proper Chinese restaurants, they were practically anti vegetarian. Which, which which like which to me. Okay, whatever, I get it. Most people eat meat, but come on like it's 2024. Like it's not like vegetarianism is something unheard of. Okay. And like when you, you know, when we were at the like these proper local restaurants and, I'm like, you know, can I see your vegetarian menu? It's just like they acted like. Oh, shit. What? Like, what are you talking like? It's like I felt like they haven't encountered a vegetarian before.

Greg (00:27:49) - So they pull out, like, a book from under the counter and be, like, blow the dust off of it.

Ed (00:27:53) - And I'm like. I'm like, wait a minute. Okay, this this is like, we're on a tour. Like, obviously tourists come to your place, like, come on. It's like. And they're just acting like, oh, Jesus, you know, we gotta do this.

Ed (00:28:05) - Like we gotta make. It's like, you know, it's like when, you know, it's like when, it's almost like. I don't know what the analogy would be. It's kind of like a, you know, one of my, a group of my students made a made a documentary film about being wheelchair bound in Bangkok, and they they spent a day in a wheelchair. And it was it was, you know, then they videotaped it, and it was kind of like they're trying to get on like a bus and like, you know, and then like the bus doors open and the driver, like, see someone in wheelchair, and you could just tell the bus driver was like, oh, Jesus, you know, and then and then like, they have like three they have like three staff people come over and it's like a whole process of like putting the ramp down and, and you can just tell they're like, oh, Jesus, like, we gotta do this, but damn, you know, and like, that's how I felt.

Ed (00:28:56) - Like they're just like, I'm like, I'm vegetarian. They're like, oh God, Jesus. Here we like another one of these guys. Like after, you know, I'm like, come on. It's like not it's like, I know. So that's just like, you know, you know, I doubt we have many veggie people amongst our listeners, but Bangkok is way more vegetarian friendly. It's like, I, I never get that kind of vibe in, in Thailand. Like I never, never do. I get the vibe that they're not ready for me like that. They've never heard the question before. Right?

Greg (00:29:26) - Okay, okay. That's funny.

Ed (00:29:28) - We're like these, these places, just like they're like, what you want, what you don't want. You don't want pork. He must, you know, he.

Greg (00:29:36) - Must mean a little bit of meat. So throw some chicken on the plate. No one, only an insane person would want only vegetables.

Ed (00:29:42) - That's right. And my last take is this.

Ed (00:29:44) - I'm curious what you think about this. I was walking along the street and. Hong Kong looks and feels to me like New York or Chicago. It just feels Western. But Singapore does not. Singapore is modern.

Greg (00:30:06) - Okay, yeah.

Ed (00:30:06) - But it's just it's like to clean. It's just. It doesn't remind me of Chicago. In Chicago for five years. But Hong Kong has more of a lived in vibe. And I've personally never been to London, but I don't know, like Hong. Just walk around London streets. Obviously there's Chinese on the signs, but other than that, I'm like, Holy shit, this this could be Chicago.

Greg (00:30:31) - Interesting. Just. I've never been just.

Ed (00:30:33) - The sidewalk, the sidewalks, the streets. And I'm assuming this is the British influence. It's just it just. It looks and feels Western.

Greg (00:30:42) - Okay, interesting.

Ed (00:30:43) - But but Singapore and Tokyo, they look and feel modern.

Greg (00:30:49) - I get it.

Ed (00:30:51) - But not Western.

Greg (00:30:53) - That's a good one. Yeah. I mean. Well I mean Tokyo's been there a long time.

Greg (00:30:57) - Hong Kong's been there a long time. Singapore is probably the newest one. But I mean Singapore is more of a design to it, right. Like Tokyo and Hong Kong sort of existed and then were built up around what existed. Whereas Singapore, Singapore, let's design the city first and then build it.

Ed (00:31:12) - Yeah, Singapore feels like Apple's campus or something.

Greg (00:31:16) - Apple is Apple City, basically.

Ed (00:31:18) - That's right. I don't know, it's just my like clearly it's Asian, but the feeling and the way it operates is Western, which it's just obviously got to be the British influence.

Greg (00:31:30) - One thing I wanted to ask you about is you mentioned quickly earlier before we were recording about how you sort of were I mean, me scam might be the wrong word, but pressured into a situation to buy stuff. And I had a very similar situation when I was there. I was on I took a bus tour when I was there years ago with my then girlfriend, now wife, and we were basically locked in a gift shop and said, you can come out when you buy something and when the bus is ready to go.

Greg (00:31:58) - then you said something similar happened to you.

Ed (00:32:01) - not. Not quite. I was it's funny, like, I was actually kind of a last minute replacement on this tour, and so I just kind of showed up, and it turns out that the, in order to keep the price down on the tour, my university signed up for this tour where it did involve going to a couple jewellery shops with the understanding that, no one had to buy anything. So we were not we didn't actually have to buy anything, but we had actually had to go to the gift shop. Okay. and, and it's something I didn't know about ahead of time. Otherwise I might, might have had a problem with it. It turned out not to be that bad, but, it just reminded me the tourism industry is just filled with a lot of scammy shit. And it just reminded me of this. Like having to go there to the jewelry shop, listen to them give their spiel, and then we say thanks, but no thanks.

Ed (00:32:51) - And we walk out. Yeah, it's just one of the it's just one of the reasons the tours were so cheap. but yeah, it's just it's just a, it's just the whole tourism industry, is not the whole thing, but I mean, like, scamming this is part of the tourism industry. And that's why we need people like Stuart from travel fish like, like people who know how to do tourism properly. Interesting. And this is why and listeners, this is why you have to be an educated tourist. Because if you just show up, then you're going to be the victim of the scamming as well.

Greg (00:33:24) - It sounds like you part of is almost like a $0 tour, right? Which is something that they crack down on Thailand with Chinese companies who basically sold the tour at cost so super cheap. But when they got to Thailand, they were sort of they put the tourists and people in their groups through really high pressure sales tactics so they could make up the money with buying trinkets and souvenirs.

Greg (00:33:47) - Understood.

Ed (00:33:47) - Like that. Yeah. So this was not a yeah, yeah. No. If we experience really high pressure sales, I would have I would have blown my lid. So it wasn't like that. It wasn't that bad. Okay. and it was just, two stops in two and a half days and, you know, 15 minutes here or 15 minutes there. So I wish it wasn't there at all. and I do think it was somewhat scammy, but then when I talked to my supervisor, they were like, it just made the tour, like, way cheaper. Like, if we agree to do that, you know, you know, if you agree to walk in, you know, like 20 people just cuts the cost of the whole thing. Interesting. and then, you know, you know, I told my students, like, don't buy anything and they didn't buy anything, you know, and then they didn't buy and they didn't buy anything, but it did just remind me of.

Ed (00:34:33) - This community of the tourism industry that that's why the world needs people like our friends who are true experts in tourism, whether it's like Dan or Scott or Trevor, like, that's why the world needs dudes like that, right? to, to, to to do tourism right down.

Greg (00:34:50) - Well, it's interesting, man. I really want to go back and take my son because I think he'd like it. And it's it's an interesting city, too, because there's lots of hills in Bangkok. Has none for sure.

Ed (00:35:00) - So, yeah. No, I mean, you know, so I so I know my review sounds kind of negative. I there was never a time there that I felt like, hey, I'd rather live here than Bangkok. Never. Like I never felt that. but at the same time, I was only there for two and a half days. but I would love to go back there and explore it more in my own and and take more pictures, man. it's, it's, it's funny.

Ed (00:35:24) - I don't even want to say beautiful. It's interesting. It's visually interesting is the best way to put it. I mean, it has dirt and grime and office towers, which I wouldn't call beautiful, but it's just visually cool. I see it, it might be the coolest looking city. I mean, other than maybe like if you go to some super traditional place like Kyoto, you know, you know, Kyoto's just like it looks a thousand years old. I think it is 1000 years old. you know, but but Hong Kong, like you said, it's like something out of Blade Runner, and it's got upscale, downscale. It's got the mountains, it's got the sea. So for taking pictures for me, it's like it's just in my experience, it's. It's number one.

Greg (00:36:09) - Cool, man. Well, you've you've piqued my interest again. I got to go back. but yeah, I think I think we can agree. We're glad that we live in Bangkok.

Ed (00:36:17) - Heck, yeah. Yeah, that's the conclusion.

Ed (00:36:19) - I'm glad I'm here. Which is why the podcast exists. Heck yeah.

Greg (00:36:23) - Heck yeah. All right. We ask our listeners to send us a voicemail using the little microphone button on our website if they have something to say. And this week we heard from our pal, the tattoo master himself, Vinnie. Now, Vinnie heard last week's bonus show, which is if you haven't if you haven't heard, it is just me reading a short poem, true story. And it was inspired to send his own poem. So let's get a little bit of culture and have a listen to a short poem that Vinnie sent in.

Vinny (00:36:48) - Hey, Greg. And, this is Vinny from new Jersey. I just wanted to say I enjoyed the poetry reading on the last bonus episode, so I thought I'd share one of mine. This one's called seeds. I have three flowers in a pot. One need only look briefly on the pot to see that it is weathered and worn. The roots of these particular flowers are hard bitten and may break through the pot itself.

Vinny (00:37:11) - I never wanted to be a gardener, but we all are in one way or another. No other pot will do. These flowers are the most beautiful beings I've seen, and if they break the pot, it would be a worthy sacrifice. Soon I will have to let them continue to grow outside in the elements. The rain, the snow, darkness, light, cold and heat. I hope they tap into the earth. I believe they will tap into the earth. I will never take her name in vain and presume to understand her plan. My heart says she loves them as much as I do. The roots of these particular flowers are hard bitten. I never knew that I wanted to be a gardener. We all are, in one way or another. Thanks, guys.

Ed (00:37:51) - Wow, that was kind of nice. Bangkok podcast gets some culture, man.

Greg (00:37:55) - Yeah, I like it, I like it. Very good job, Vinnie. And, I got to say, though, don't send in poems all the time and expect us to turn into the poor.

Greg (00:38:02) - Bangkok poetry slam podcast.

Ed (00:38:05) - Bangkok poem.

Greg (00:38:06) - That's right, that's right. But, I gotta say, man, like, I did get some feedback on the bonus show where I did read one of my favorite poems and, some of it was like, yeah, I didn't listen to that, but I got more people saying they really, really enjoyed it. And a few people wrote in, oh, great work on the sound editing because I added some sound effects and stuff, but I, I've always really liked poetry, especially Japanese haiku poetry for some reason. so it's nice to, you know, expand your horizons, spread your wings, what have you.

Ed (00:38:34) - Get some culture.

Greg (00:38:36) - That's right. We're just, like, two little buckets of yogurt sitting here full of culture. Thanks, Vinnie.

Ed (00:38:42) - Alrighty. A final thanks to our patrons who support the show. Patrons get a ton of cool perks and the warm, fuzzy feeling knowing that they're helping and our never ending quest for cool content. Find out more by clicking support on our website and connect with us online.

Ed (00:38:55) - Where Bangkok podcast on social media Bangkok podcast.com on the web or simply Bangkok Podcast at gmail.com. We love hearing from our listeners and always reply to our messages.

Greg (00:39:07) - That's right. You can also listen to each episode on YouTube. You can send us a voicemail through our website that will feature on the show. Hit me up on threads and BC. Greg, thanks for listening everyone. Take it easy out there. I'll see you back here next week.