Future Southeast Asia's James Clark on Thailand's Transport Infrastructure [S7.E41]

Greg 00:00:05 On this episode, we welcome James Clarke from Future Southeast Asia to talk about Thailand's transportation infrastructure.

Ed 00:00:12 So if you want the skinny on the good, the bad and the frustrating on Thailand's rail, sea and air development, you'll find a lot to love in this episode of.

Ed 00:00:21 The Bangkok Podcast.

Greg 00:00:36 Sawat dee krap and welcome to the Bangkok Podcast. My name is Greg Jorgensen, a Canadian who came to Thailand in 2001 because my buddy Trevor said that only my mother could ever find me handsome. So joke's on you, Trevor.

Ed 00:00:48 You proved him wrong for sure. That's right. You suck eggs. And I met with an American who came to Thailand on a one year teaching contract 24 years ago. fell in love with students who not and smile when I ask if they understand something, whether or not they actually understand it. So I never left.

Greg 00:01:08 It's like what you say. Do you have any questions or not? Yes. What?

Ed 00:01:15 Well my students just tend to nod and just say I'm good.

Ed 00:01:19 And even though I know they're not but you know, makes my job easier.

Greg 00:01:23 But I never thought about how the teachers used to think of it when I remember when I was a student. They're like, do you have any questions? I'm like, no, no, no, I get it. And in my mind I was saying, just whatever I need to say to get you to stop talking to me is what I was saying.

Ed 00:01:35 Well, yeah, that’s what I think's going on, but I have I have plausible deniability.

Greg 00:01:43 That's right.

Ed 00:01:43 All right. We want to give a big thanks to all of our patrons who support the show. Patrons get every episode a day early, behind the scenes photos of our interviews, a heads up to send questions to upcoming guests, and access to our discord server to chat with me, Greg and other listeners around the world. But best of all, patrons also get an unscripted, uncensored bonus episode every week where we riff on current events and Bangkok topics on this week's bonus show.

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Greg 00:02:21 Oh no.

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Greg 00:03:11 Okay, on this episode, we are joined by a good friend of mine named James Clark, the founder of Future Southeast Asia, a website and newsletter focused on transport and urban development in Southeast Asia. Sound boring? Well, it ain't, because whether you're nerdy about it or not, it's something that affects us all. Indeed, it's hard to think of a single element of our lives that are not tightly tied to Asia's logistics networks, be they air, rail or sea. And James covers them all. In Thailand, he's written about Bangkok's lack of a unified train ticket the bridge to cosmos, the ongoing debate over the usefulness of a deep sea port on the Isthmus of Kra, and much, much more. His work also looks at the rest of Southeast Asia to be it Saigon, comically slow subway construction, the sort of high speed train in Laos, or how sidewalks play a major role in Singapore's success. It's always good to talk to James to hear what's up with transport in Asia. So here is my chat with our buddy James Clark.

Greg 00:04:11 Right. Well, we are sitting down here with a very good pal of mine who right now is safe and dry in Chiang Mai. That'll make a good T-shirt. Actually, someone who who? I've. I've thought about having on the show many, many times before, and my stupid brain is always just never come back to that idea. But I'm really happy you're finally here. James Clark, founder of Future Southeast Asia and Nomadic Notes. Welcome to the Bangkok Podcast. Finally.

James 00:04:35 Great to be here, Greg. Thanks for having me.

Greg 00:04:37 No, it's my pleasure, man. And I again, I always enjoy hanging out. When you come through Bangkok, we see movies and we have lunch and have some, have some good times hanging out. But I've, for whatever reason, I've always thought, like, I gotta get him on the show, and it's just never materialized until now, so yay me for being ten years behind schedule, but I made.

James 00:04:56 For being on At last, so it's great to be here.

James 00:04:59 I'm glad.

Greg 00:04:59 You're here. I'm glad you're here, man. And, users can't see this right now, but I'm. I'm talking to a video screen of what looks like Colonel Kurtz in Apocalypse Now. Because, you see, folks, you might think that I'm the professional podcaster, but no, James is the professional podcaster, because right now he's sweltering under a blanket in a dark room in his hotel in Chiang Mai.

James 00:05:21 Yeah, thanks. I've done a few podcasts before, and I've learned from professionals that, even if they can't see you, you should just set up a nice little, soundproof studio. So, like, the blankets, create a nice audio environment. So I'm here for the craft.

Greg 00:05:38 I very much appreciate the professionalism, and I might even learn a thing or two. So. Okay, so you you have this great. First of all, you have this great website and a great newsletter that I look forward to getting every, every time it comes out. and that is the Future Southeast Asia newsletter.

Greg 00:05:53 And your beat, your specialty, I think, is a really unique one. because it focuses mostly on the rail infrastructure of Southeast Asia, but also of the general transportation infrastructure of Southeast Asia. Is that how you would describe it?

James 00:06:09 Yeah, so that's pretty much it. I cover transport and urban development in Southeast Asia at Future Southeast asia.com. So it's, I've leaned a lot into railways at this point, but I do also cover, new airports or, you know, development of airports. And I do construction updates of the major cities. So I'll visit Bangkok once a year and do a major construction update, just sort of like do a, a roll call of what's getting built. So and new urban areas and, you know, huge infrastructure projects. So like in Thailand they're planning to build like what they had the Kra Canal at first. And then now they want to do this, land bridge where they want to connect to ports by a railway across the peninsula. And then I just wrote about this week a plan to build a sea wall in the upper Gulf of Thailand.

James 00:07:04 So there's all these, like, there's so many things to write about. I've figured, oh, this will be my forever job, basically, because there's always something to write about every week in this part of the world.

Greg 00:07:13 Right? Right. And it's it's so it's so cool that you're super nerdy about this very niche, topic because, like, I mean, you know, Richard Barrow is, is the, the, the, the big bad train nerd now, so it's hard to get out from underneath his shadow. But like you said, there's so much going on. And I'm always amazed at the depth of knowledge in your newsletter because you're like, oh my God. Like, are they really still talking about this or thinking about this? But, let's let's take a step back now. So talk a little bit about what's happening in Thailand as a as a transport infrastructure nerd, what has you most excited about how Thailand is developing in that area?

James 00:07:51 well, I've been covering a lot about the railways here, so, there's a lot happening here, which even this even projects, which I, I'm guessing a lot of people don't even know, that's happening at the moment.

James 00:08:01 Like, everyone probably knows about the the Thai China High speed railway, which will go up to from Bangkok to Nankai. So it'll basically go through the northeast corridor and then it'll go over to the NTN. So that's a 250km an hour railway. So that's a high speed railway. So that's going to be the first high speed railway in Thailand. So that's like a pretty exciting development. But in addition to that there's all these other new railways that I'm really interested in. So there's like a, a branch line off the Chiang Mai line that's going to Shanghai and Chiang Kong on the border. So this one you really ever read about, you might see it once a once a year in the English newspapers in Thailand. But, other than that, it's just kind of like just they're just slowly building it and then, you know, maybe in 2027, 2028, there's going to be a train to Shanghai. So, you know, this is something they've been wanting for 50 years. And it's like, wow, it's going to be happening in our lifetime hopefully.

James 00:09:06 So yeah.

Greg 00:09:07 Yeah. The one that Chiang Mai I very distinctly remember the first time, I used to take the train a lot back in the day when my early days of is of being a young punk in Thailand. And I would say, oh, I wonder, do you want to visit the Chiang, Chiang Rai? I'll just take the train. And I was shocked when they said, you can't, the train doesn't go to Chiang Rai. It stops in Chiang Mai. And it just seemed really strange to me.

James 00:09:27 Yeah. It's got it's, I think it'll change things, you know, like, hopefully they'll get more tourism in that area. And there will be a few provinces in the north that'll have a train for the first time. So that'll kind of open up new areas. there's also a east west railway that's being built at the moment. So it also basically go from May, sit on the border and it'll go across to, through eastern, it'll go to band P and then up to Mukden and NEC on phenom.

James 00:10:03 So. Oh okay. Yeah. So the, the eastern section is being built at the moment. So this is another one where it doesn't get published a lot. There's a few like infrastructure websites in Thai that sort of keep up to date about it. And they're very specific. They'll be like, oh, we've finished 7.26% of the track this month or something. And it's like, okay, great. but that's like, oh, wow, that's a really random. It sounds random when you look on the map, but it's actually part of a grand plan to connect Myanmar to Vietnam by a railway. So it'll go to Laos after Nakhon Venom and then, in into Vietnam, to the port. and port. Yeah.

Greg 00:10:52 Okay. What's the deal with, road versus rail here? Because, you know, I mean, China is doing they're great. I think they called it the Belt and Road Initiative. you know, they're building, you know, hundreds and hundreds of thousands of of roads and things like this.

Greg 00:11:07 But what how do how does a country like Thailand see rail versus road in terms of transportation of, of of goods and people?

James 00:11:17 I think. Right. road has been the main priority, for a longer time and they've sort of like tried to get that, you know, get organized, but, you know, they're now catching up to rail. So there's all these projects like double tracking, on the current single track lines. So it'll make, train travel a bit faster because there's trains don't have to wait for other trains to pass, right? But the main problem is I haven't connected with the neighboring countries. So there's a train that in Laos that goes from China, which is on the standard gauge railway, but then it gets to Thailand and it's on the meter gauge. So you've got to change, you know, the containers over and onto the medication. So it's a it's a bit of a messy situation. Yeah.

Greg 00:12:04 Talk about that for a bit because this is something you've covered in your Facebook posts and your newsletters before.

Greg 00:12:08 But there's two different I think there's two different quote unquote standard gauges for rail lines. That is the width of the of the train tracks. But Thailand's is special and it's not compatible with its neighbours. What's, what's going on here.

James 00:12:24 So Thailand runs on the meter gauge, which is the same track that's operates in most of Southeast Asia. So Malaysia and Vietnam also have the meter gauge. And it was the preferred gauge here 100 years ago in the colonial times. But the rest of the world has moved on to this standard gauge, which is like 1.435m. so China uses that. Most of Europe uses that. There's a few countries that use broad gauge, which is a bit wider than than that. But for the most part, if anyone's building a new railway, it's going to be on standard gauge. So, the problem with Thailand is they've embarked on this major project to double track all of their meter gauge railways when what they should have done was just go, okay, let's just have a 20 year plan to convert the entire system to a standard gauge.

James 00:13:25 And then that would be compatible with the the train that's in Laos at the moment. So at at the moment, Thailand is also they're building the standard gauge on that high speed train, but they're also double tracking the meter gauge train next to it. So there's going to be two different types of railways next to each other when when they should have just built one and saved a lot of money. Like, you know, the SRT are in a lot of data at the moment and they could have saved money by just not doing this, you know, duplication process.

Greg 00:14:02 It sounds a lot like America with the imperial system. You know, there's like they're holding on for dear life and there's no way in hell they're going to give that up despite what the rest of the world is doing.

James 00:14:12 They've got to hang on to that for too long.

Greg 00:14:14 Yeah. That's amazing. So let's back up a little bit. And I wanted to ask you something specifically if you've heard any gossip, because I'm really interested in this because it happens to be in my neighborhood.

Greg 00:14:25 But some background for those that might not be aware, the the BTS, which is the one of Bangkok's main train lines, the Green Line, the original Silom Cylon line. It goes across the river at sapien taxon over the sapien taxon Bridge. Now, when they built it, it stopped at Sapien Taxon Bridge and didn't cross the river. But I don't know. I don't know why. There's probably all kinds of reasons, but for whatever reasons, they never built it. But the the, the growing city and the demand for this extension finally went over and they, they finally built the train across the river. But the bridge is a single track. There's only room for one track, which means there's only room for one train to go over the bridge at any one time, which causes a huge bottleneck. So you have to sometimes just stop and sit there for, you know, 30s 60s, 90s while you wait for the oncoming train to pass you. And then you can go. now, for years, they've been talking about shutting down the bridge, which would be a huge headache and widening the whole thing to add another, another track along it so both trains can go across at the same time.

Greg 00:15:34 Have you heard anything about this? Because the last update I heard was like six years ago and they're like, yeah, we're ready any day now. We're going to start.

James 00:15:43 I've I've also been following this story and I feel your pain because I just that just drives me crazy when I'm at that station and you just they're thinking, oh, this is like, really annoying. it's I've seen that happen in a few countries around the world where they just, skimp out on costs, I think, oh, let's just do this single track. We'll save because we only have to build, you know, half a bridge. But basically it's going to cost more in the long run. So these things always come back to bite. And it's unfortunate that they didn't, you know, even if they had to just build one track and left a reserve for the future, that would have been a much better solution. right. I think that's on a on a very long wish list of things that need to be done and, unfortunately, I haven't heard anything.

James 00:16:34 It's sort of like I haven't. You know, I kept wondering about the extension of the Salem line further west into the old city. It just stops there at National Stadium. You think, when are they going to kind of, go on with this extension? It's like, right, probably years away from happening.

Greg 00:16:54 It reminds me of when I was shoveling the snow as a kid, and my stepdad would say, if it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. And I would just half assed my way through it, and then he'd make me go out and do it again. And I never learned the lesson, that it was always best to do it the right way. The first time.

James 00:17:07 He should have been working for the RTS then, shouldn't he?

Greg 00:17:10 Yeah. No kidding. So, another project I wanted to ask you about was the proposed bridge from the mainland to Kasumi. what's what's going on here?

James 00:17:25 yeah, that's another one that's been talked about for years. And that would be about 17km.

James 00:17:32 So that will be one of the longest bridges in Southeast Asia, Asia not the longest. So it's it's definitely doable. but that's sort of in, you know, feasibility stage. And I've had a few meetings about it, but maybe that would go on for years as well. So, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it at this point, but you never know.

Greg 00:17:51 I'm not holding my breath for any of these. But that's the damn thing about it, isn't it? Is it? Is it you? You always see these grand plans and these grand plans. And for me, anyway. And I know I've been here a long time, but it seems like you're like, oh, there's nothing happening. And then a year goes by and everything happens, and suddenly there's like 200 new kilometers of, of of, of, of rail lines. So it seems to happen like they say. It seems to happen. not at all. And then all at once.

James 00:18:18 Exactly. And that's the thing, these, these other, these smaller lines that I'm talking about, which might all come together within the space of a year or two, like the Shanghai and the the East sound line.

James 00:18:29 So those would be kind of really interesting. And then, you know, all of the urban railways in Bangkok, there's like, you know, you've got three lines under construction right now. So that's kind of, you know, Bangkok's doing a pretty good job and actually at least ticking over, the grand plan of, you know, having a very extensive network, even though it's still feels like there's a long way to go because it's such a big city and it's going to take a lot more lines to sort of, you know, make the make travelling more manageable.

Greg 00:19:03 Right, right. and it's still surprising, like, you know, a couple of years ago, me and our friend Scott, we, we went out one day and we wrote a bunch of the train lines because we were unfamiliar with them, and we realized that there was so much happening. We were at risk of becoming strangers in our own city. You know, someone would say, hey, how do I get to blah, blah, blah on the Purple Line? And I would be like, no idea.

Greg 00:19:26 I've never ridden the Purple Line. So we went out to ride a bunch of them, and I was really shocked how long it took, like if you wanted to go from where I live, which is down by Sapien Texan, up to like near concrete in the north of Bangkok. It would take like an hour and a half on the train, which is a long trip, you know, just it's just easier to take the car.

James 00:19:48 Right. And that's the other thing, isn't it? It's like you've got to make the the trains as easy as possible for commuters. So all that extra friction of like not having stations that have good interchanges just adds time and inconvenience. And that's the that's a big block. You want a station where you can just walk out and then you go downstairs and there's another train platform, or they're even better. They're so like they you know, the Bangkok's urban railway just started off perfectly with the BTS with that cross cross-platform interchange at Chrome. Like, that's just what a great interchange should look like.

James 00:20:29 He just walk across the platform and the the train going in the same direction is there. but unfortunately the good lesson was lost after that great, example. So then the next, interchanges, you've got like Ashok and Sukhumvit where you've got like terrible interchange, where you've got to go outside, go downstairs in all of the chaos, and then the Silom intersection where you've got to go, are you coming from underground? And you go up to the overpass, the sliding, and it's like, oh my God. It's just like, this is meant to be one of the main interchanges. This should have been properly integrated. Yeah.

Greg 00:21:13 And it's funny because this is a constant frustration for people. And I am not an engineer. I am not a transportation expert at all. But you have the the Ask Ashok Sukhumvit Interchange, where they built it, and they connected them like the subway to the Skytrain, you know, which is quite a distance up vertical. And then, you know, after they opened it, I what I heard was that someone very important said, hey, why don't you put some escalators in here? And they were like, oh, good idea.

Greg 00:21:40 And you know, and then you have the interchange, the brand new interchange at Bang Soo where the, the huge new Grand Grand Central Station is, and it was built like a kilometer away from the next connecting line. You have pity the pity airport link, which was touted as this is a massive station and it was going to be this huge airport rail link where you could check in your bags, and it was a total failure because it was in the middle of nowhere and there was no easy way to get to it. You have the the lack of a single card that ties all the systems together. It's just like it's really easy to say, like just to be very, very critical on one hand. On the on the other hand, you say, okay, well, I don't understand all the details, but then on the third hand you're like, really? What's there to understand? I mean, this is not it doesn't seem like rocket science, you know.

James 00:22:33 It's not rocket science. And the fact is that we've got plenty of other cities to draw experience from.

James 00:22:39 Right. the to know what to do. Right? We all know that having a good interchange is a better user experience. It just cuts the friction between traveling, especially if you're a commuter that has to do three different train lines to get to work. If you've got like you have to do two interchanges that are really messy. It's just like adds. It just makes your car look a little bit more enticing. Yeah. And yeah, but, you know, it just got off to a bad start because there's all these different companies running the railways and they all have their own payment system. Now, a lot of your listeners are probably familiar with the Magnum card. So this was like this plan ten years ago. It's I think it's been longer than that, where they wanted to make a unified payment system, which would work across all of the, train systems. And that just hasn't happened.

Greg 00:23:38 well, it's it's like a lot of things there's, there's there's there's a lot of, people who just enjoy the status quo as it is, who are very comfortable with how things are working.

Greg 00:23:48 Now, what's the old saying it? It's hard to change someone's mind when their job depends on it not being changed. You know what I mean?

James 00:23:53 That's right.

Greg 00:23:54 Yeah.

James 00:23:55 So I mean, there's been some really great changes in the last year or so. Well, we've like they've introduced the 20 baht fare to a lot of the railways. So because you know, some of the tickets were getting quite expensive. So if you tell it up like, you know, if you're doing six trips, six different rail lines in one day to work, you're talking like it's more expensive than some Western European countries.

Greg 00:24:21 Yeah, it's very expensive. Especially if you're if you're if you're a, you know, a laborer, if you're a type person who's, who's working like in a, in a, in a, in a cafeteria or a restaurant or something like that, you're looking at, you know, your daily wage is is what I'm guessing at 800,000 baht a day or whatever it is, you know, and then you're, you're spending 200 and 220 bot a day on transit.

Greg 00:24:43 That's a significant chunk. It's not it's not sustainable.

James 00:24:48 Yeah. So if they bring in a I mean, and the other thing that the government has been talking about, setting up a, an infrastructure fund which would be used to buy back the railways from the private companies and put it all under one company, which would be a game changer. That's basically what needs to happen. So I'm pretty excited about this story, because it would mean they could then go ahead with like having a unified payment system where the your card remembers where you've been. So like to say, for example, the London Oyster card, you could like, travel around on different modes of transport and then it knows when you've like, it'll reach a daily cap and it won't charge you any more for the rest of the day. So in, in here it's impossible to know like the, you can have a card that on the BTS but it doesn't know that you've already been on the MRT four times today. So it has to Right.

James 00:25:51 It has to have a system that talks to each other. Right. So yeah. And also if if the system was unified, it means and then they could start retroactively building interchanges that actually work where you can use the one ticket instead of like, you know, paying, you know, tapping out to go outside the station and going downstairs to another system.

Greg 00:26:17 And that wouldn't only be a benefit for commuters and make it easier for the average Joe. Or some try to get from A to B, but that would be a giant leap forward in a city with so many transportation options that would kick Thailand way ahead. In terms of being a world class city, you know, its known for its its trains, its boats, its buses, its traffic. And if you if you connected all that together and made it, you know, on a comparable to somewhere like Hong Kong or or Malaysia or KL or something like that, it would do wonders for the I don't know, I don't know. The international reputation might be a bit lofty of a term, but it would really sort of help cement Bangkok as a true world class city, or one that's on its way, you know?

James 00:27:01 Yeah, that's exactly it.

James 00:27:03 It's like if they want to be, you know, seen as a world class city, you know, you've got to start with this transport system that's unified and and cheap for people who are, you know, for workers because it's getting too expensive as. As it was. So, having a system where you can jump from, you know, the, the railways and then onto the local bus system and then, you know, integrate the, you know, the boat systems as well. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. And it just makes it we need to get as many cars off the road as possible because that people that there's only car numbers are still going up and you can't make any more roads. So. Right. This is not an equation that's going to be for reducing traffic.

Greg 00:27:46 No. And I drive to work every day. And I would love to not drive to work every day. I would love to get on a train and just sit back and relax. But it's just I, you know, I started my new job a few months ago and man, the amount of traffic math I did, trying to figure out a cheap and and sensible way to get to work by not using my car.

Greg 00:28:06 But it's just impossible. It just doesn't work out. So here I am in the car.

James 00:28:11 Yeah, It takes. It's going to take years, but it's like it's a job that needs to be done every year where there's like, you know, three or the three lines under construction now, and you've got to have more in the pipeline and ready to be under construction when the next lines are online. It's just, you know, get it going. It's going to be a long term project.

Greg 00:28:33 Well, as we as we're wrapping up here, I want to also talk about something. I just read the news the other day that they've opened up the line from Bangkok to Vientiane. The train line, is that high speed or is that just a regular?

James 00:28:45 No. what? It actually, it's the same line that's always been there. They've just basically extended. They've added a bit of extra track in Laos. So there's there used to be a train that goes from non-key to tunnelling, which is basically on the other side of the Mekong River.

James 00:29:03 And now the state railway. Thailand and Thailand helped Laos Glass build this extension that goes into the NTN cam service station. So basically it's now possible to run a train from Thailand intervention proper. So Thailand are now offering these overnight trains from Bangkok to Vientiane, but you still have to get off at Nankai and go for immigration. And they run a shuttle train over the border, but it's basically the same ticket. So it's sort of a technically a train to NTA.

Greg 00:29:41 Interesting. I like to do.

James 00:29:42 That, but this is a, this is a not the same. You know, maybe in, I think they keep changing the date when they're going to build the high speed train, but maybe 2028, there will be an actual real high speed railway from Bangkok to Vientiane. Wow. but they haven't built the bridge that's going to be on that yet, so who knows how long that will take.

Greg 00:30:05 And you've ridden the high speed, the real high speed train in Laos, right?

James 00:30:09 that's the semi high speed train.

James 00:30:11 So that one only goes at $160 an hour. Okay. So pretty. Pretty speedy. It's fast. It's semi high speed, but there's a high speed one in, Java. So there's this Jakarta to Bandung train, which is 350km an hour. Wow. One of the fastest trains in the world. it's a Chinese built train, and it's amazing. It's it's, it's what the future looks like. Really. So by comparison, the the one in Thailand that's getting built is 250km, which is still pretty epic, but it's not, not 350km, 350.

Greg 00:30:48 It's 100 faster. Yeah, yeah, 100 better.

James 00:30:51 Yeah.

Greg 00:30:53 And and what's what's up with, they're building a new, they're building a new terminal at Suvarnabhumi, and then there's talk of another terminal after that. yeah.

James 00:31:03 They're basically just always adding stuff there. They've just. They've got a third runway on the way. I recently went through the new, they got a satellite terminal there, so that's like, there's an underground people mover that takes you out to the, thing.

James 00:31:21 It's a real hike, but it's like, you know, it's like, oh, wow. It's like a whole lot of, I think they're putting all the cheap flights out there, so, Right. It's not.

Greg 00:31:30 you had to walk past all the King Power shops.

James 00:31:33 Yeah, exactly. How many can you do in one day? yeah. But, yeah, they've got a mania for, airport building, which I've also written about, like Chiang Mai. I want to build a second airport, and they want to build a another airport, just outside of Phuket. So. And a few other airport expansions as well. Yeah.

Greg 00:31:58 Well, they could take some lessons from Changi in Singapore, because when I was down there a few months back and God damn, that's a nice airport. And then you come to to sauna boom. And it was just it just felt so clinical and cold and cold.

James 00:32:12 Yeah. It's sort of. And, bang su central Terminal, yeah. Has the same vibe as Suvarnabhumi where it's like, just all grey.

James 00:32:25 no, really. No furnishings? No. It just feels very clinical. and boring, basically. So yeah.

Greg 00:32:34 Yeah.

James 00:32:35 You go to go to Changi and it's like, you know, you got the I think because of the carpet, it sort of dulls the, sound like me talking in my sound booth here. I know just how it's like, like when you're at Suvarnabhumi. It's like the the announcements really bounce off the walls there, and it was really echoey.

Greg 00:32:55 Yeah. When you're in Changi, it feels like you're in a gigantic living room. Yes. But it's a lot of boom. It sounds like you're in a in an operating theatre. And yeah.

James 00:33:05 I know I keep hearing that end of the walkway announcement because I've been stuck there so many times. oh, God, we're not waiting for our next flight.

Greg 00:33:14 Well, the last thing I'll say is that, you know, Bangkok has its problems for sure, but, man, you spend a lot of time in Saigon, in Vietnam.

Greg 00:33:22 And, man, it's just it seems like a shit show there in terms of their train system. I mean, it looks like they're in a competition to see who can be the most, have the most slowest development for a rail system.

James 00:33:34 That's right. I think, I've been meeting up with you for probably a decade or more, and I've. Every time I come to Bangkok, I'm like, oh, wow, you guys have got a metro. It's like, so they've they started building line one of the Ho Chi Minh City Metro in 2012, and it was meant to be finished in 2018, and it's still under construction every year since 2018. They've night. Like I said, it's going to be next year, it's going to be next year. And now. Last week they said, okay, definitely quarter for of 2024. So they're saying by the end of December, it's going to be ready. So most of us have been there for this long of like okay, we'll believe it when we see it, but right, I'm sort of scheduling I'll be in Bangkok in December, and then I'll be scheduling my travels to be there for the opening of that opening.

Greg 00:34:33 Yeah. Is it going to be like you remember when Suvarnabhumi was open and Thaksin was the prime minister, and he promised that it would open by a certain date in 2006? And then like on that date, they had one plane land and and they're like, success, you know, but it actually didn't actually open for like another six months.

James 00:34:51 Usually what they do there is, like the projects get blown out, the so delayed that they will then announce a new date. and then like sort of open it a few days before that. So it's sort of like two days early but five years late. So that's one way of getting around it.

Greg 00:35:13 It's interesting. Oh, man. Well, yeah, I guess it could always be worse. Right. And there are places that might look at at, Ho Chi Minh City and say, wow, at least they're getting something like, we don't have anything.

James 00:35:23 So yeah, that's right. I mean, it's all relative, but I think, you know, in terms of transit, you know, Bangkok is really come a long way.

James 00:35:31 Like you've got like you're up there with Kuala Lumpur now with like the amount of lines you have and the fact that you've got so many in the pipeline, it's and that they're actually, you know, either under construction or planned is is pretty exciting. I'm sort of last time I was in Bangkok, I was sort of looking around, Democracy Monument. And you've got like, the Purple Line, South Extension, which will interchange with the Orange Line West extension. So just the fact that there's going to be two underground stations at Democracy Monument. Just I remember first going there, you know, getting the the longboat nearby, and now it's like, wow, I can get a, get a train there now.

Greg 00:36:19 Yeah. God, just imagine all the new opportunities for the scam artists down there. Just going to be amazing. Yes, it'll be everywhere. Well, James, thanks, man. It's really good to talk to you, as always. And really good to hear what you're thinking about. the transportation infrastructure in, in Southeast Asia.

Greg 00:36:35 Where can people find out more about you and sign up for your newsletter?

James 00:36:39 Yeah. It gets, go to Future Southeast asia.com, and there's a sign up box on that site where you can get my weekly newsletter. It comes out every Wednesday, and I cover all of the transport and urban development issues in Southeast Asia. So it's just a nice summary of everything that's happening. So whether it's like the subway they're planning in Bali or a new high speed railway in Java. I'll cover it and you can sort of get an idea of what's happening in the region. Yeah.

Greg 00:37:09 Yeah, it's I highly recommend everyone who's interested in in Asia to to get it. It's really, really comprehensive, very interesting. And I think actually it's kind of a barometer of sort of more of like the economic health, the cultural health, the the sort of undercurrents of what's happening in a lot of these Southeast Asian megacities. So it's really interesting to keep an eye on. And your newsletter is a great source of info in that regard.

James 00:37:30 Thanks, mate.

Greg 00:37:31 Well thanks man. It's great to chat and thanks for coming on the show and we'll get you back on again for round two this time much, much sooner than ten years from now. But I think in the next 3 or 4 years, there's going to be a lot more to talk about in terms of Bangkok train trains.

James 00:37:46 Thanks, Greg. I look forward to being back.

Greg 00:37:48 Cool, man. Talk to you soon. Bye.

Ed 00:37:54 Oh, no. So I gotta be honest, this is something that I probably would have been bored by when I first came to Thailand. But, but but no. But seeing how things have changed since we've been here, you and I have just talked about just the emirate, and it just completely changes Bangkok. Just just that level of development, let alone some of the bigger ones he's talking about. I now think it's fascinating, like this, this type of, some, this type of, technological development. It it affects everything, you know, like, you know, if you if you put in a high speed train, it's it's it's like it's transformational.

Ed 00:38:34 You know what I mean?

Greg 00:38:36 Totally. Yes, totally. And the city like Bangkok. It's. You're right. Like, when, you know, coming from Canada where I'm from, like, there's, there's, there's the LRT, which is the light rail transit in downtown, but there's no people don't ride passenger trains. Trains aren't a big part of the transportation infrastructure there. the cargo, yes, but they're on the old slow. Slow as diesel trains, you know. But you have a city like Bangkok. And I mean, the development of its rail network is, like I said in the interview, it's sort of a barometer of its overall economic development, too. True. And and it's really exciting and interesting to see how these things, you know, grow and spread and what kind of effects they have on the on the life and the, the ambience of a city. Yeah.

Ed 00:39:16 No, I mean, I, I, I, I think all the stuff is really cool now like I wish and travel travel is not difficult in Thailand, but there's so many things that I wish were easier.

Ed 00:39:26 Like I wish there was a high speed train up north, you know, I wish, it was easier to get down south, like this idea of like a bridge or something to Samui or, you know, we've talked before about, like boat, boat transport, like down the river and out into the ocean, like this type of thing. If you make one of these changes, it's actually not a small change.

Greg 00:39:53 No, no it's not. And you know, it's funny because if you get if you get far enough away from sort of the main downtown of Bangkok, the main core of, of greater Bangkok, and you're up high enough, you can actually see where the train lines go by the tall buildings. You know what I mean? Oh, right. You can't see the train tracks, but you can see where the tall buildings are or the development. The development follows the train generally follow the train tracks. So it's pretty interesting. And of course there's big problems too. We mentioned the lack of the unified ticket here, which is like a constant pain in the ass and the fact that, you know, if you're like a, a regular Thai laborer getting across the city on the train is is not cheap.

Greg 00:40:33 So there's still problems.

Ed 00:40:35 But no doubt, no doubt. You know, the other thing, the other reason I like this topic is, there's something about countries in, in, in Thailand's level of development or maybe Vietnam where they are developing. So, you know, I'm sure there's certain places or certain countries where, you know, maybe take like Japan, they've got a high speed train, they've got a crazy subway in Tokyo, you know, I'm sure obviously there's new projects coming, but they've kind of already done all this stuff. And so maybe they're just tweaking or there's nothing that's going to completely transform Japan. But in Southeast Asia. But in Southeast Asia, you know, I saw a plan for, Cambodia's new airport. And it was just insane. And it, you know, like super modern and, but it had a cool, c'mere design. And I'm just like, that'll change the country like it's it's Southeast Asia is exciting because it's developing.

Greg 00:41:36 Right. Exactly. Yeah, that's a really good way to put it.

Greg 00:41:38 And I keep thinking, like his his story about taking the high speed train in Laos, you know, the the high ish speed train, he's like, oh, it only goes 250km an hour or whatever it was. But, you know, a lot of parts of Laos, people are still using oxen to plow their fields. Right. And then and then you see, like a 250 kilometer maglev train go by in the background and it's like, what the hell? So it's a really interesting aspect. And I think James's, newsletter feature, Southeast Asia, is really, really interesting. And he's kind of cornered the market on this, coverage of all this stuff in Southeast Asia. So definitely worth a follow. And many thanks to James for coming on the show. Always fun to chat for sure.

Ed 00:42:18 Thanks, James. Yeah.

Greg 00:42:20 All right, let's get into some love, loathe, or live with where one of us picks a particular aspect of living in Bangkok, which we then discussed to decide if it's something we love about living here, loathe about living here, or have come to accept as something we just have to learn to live with no matter how we feel about it.

Greg 00:42:34 And this week, Ed, what do you got for me?

Ed 00:42:36 All right, I got something. It's a little bit hard to explain, but I think this is a legitimate question. Once, once I once I explain what I'm talking about. Basically, I want to know if you are a joiner. And what I mean by that is the the plethora of apps and networks and clubs you can join. Like usually there's some perks involved, you know, like Major Cineplex, like do you have the app, did you sign up, did you give them your email or, or Foodland or villa like you joined the villain network? You get 5% off. are you a joiner? Like are you a do you mind just giving your email to everyone signing up, joining the club? You know, sometimes there's a card you got to get. I feel like everywhere I turn in Bangkok, someone's asking me to join a network.

Greg 00:43:23 Interesting. I this is a really interesting question because I am vehemently anti joiner.

Greg 00:43:29 Like okay okay that's okay.

Ed 00:43:31 That's a good answer. You're you're you're a loathe basically.

Greg 00:43:33 Loathe hard loathe. And I may have mentioned this on a on a previous episode, but I was a few months ago I was I was out with a friend and and she's like, oh you got to we're going to go to this restaurant and you can they have like a 10% discount? And I was like, oh, sushi. Sushi. And I was like, oh, 10% discount on sushi. I'm in for that. She's like, yeah, no, just download the app and then create an account. And I'm like, I'm out, I'm already out. That's right.

Ed 00:43:56 It's always like, no, this is exactly what I'm talking about.

Greg 00:43:59 Yeah, I would pay 10% of my meal not to do that.

Ed 00:44:03 This is great. Well, at least we've got a clear answer. You know what? You know what? Why this is in my mind is I was at, I mean, you probably driver.

Ed 00:44:13 I guess you're even close enough to walk. But I was at Iconsiam, and I came out to get a taxi, and I was a little bit. I was a little bit, a little bit of a hurry, and there weren't that many people waiting, and there were a bunch of taxis, but basically they, they now have some queue, a queuing system, but they don't have just a machine where you have to get, you know, your ticket. It's actually they've got a big QR code. And so to get a taxi at at icon, you have to hit the QR code that takes you to an app to download. Then you have to join some taxi taxi club worldwide taxi club network. So it's like it's some. It's like some taxi queuing. Oh my.

Greg 00:44:55 God.

Ed 00:44:56 Worldwide like worldwide network.

Greg 00:44:58 Dude, getting out of iconsiam is a nightmare.

Ed 00:45:01 And I was. So I'm just like, I'm not. I'm channeling the guy. Like I'm pointing to basically cabs that are waiting for me.

Ed 00:45:06 And he's like, oh, you got to get the queue. You got to, you know, so it's not even just get a number. It's download the app. So you're standing there like on, you know, on 4G or 5G or whatever. And I'm waiting for the app to download. And then, then I install the app and it's like it's asking information like my name, my address. I'm like, I just want to get a taxi.

Greg 00:45:24 Haha. Oh Jesus. Yeah, man. It's this is this is just bothers me so much. I wonder it's 7-Eleven or those stupid goddamn stickers they try to give you. And I'm like, I'm like my oh my oh sticker. And sometimes they look at me like, but but they're free. Like it's worth it free. And I'm like, I know I don't, I don't want your goddamn stickers. And every time I go to every time I go to buy groceries, you know, like I spend thousands and thousands of bought there a month.

Greg 00:45:48 Sure, sure. And they're like, what is what do they say in Thai, Mr. Market? Like, you have a membership. And I'm glad I never shop with my wife because she'd kill me. Because I always say no, like stupid membership program. Just let me go home. You're like, I.

Ed 00:45:58 Realized I've been coming here ten years and I could save money. But no, I'm not. No, I'm not joining. So.

Greg 00:46:04 So I will go out of my way to not have to mess with any of that stupid crap.

Ed 00:46:08 Interesting. Well, it's funny, because I was going to say that I'm a loathe to, but you're you're a harder loathe, so I do. I am a member of a few things here and there. It's just I, there should be a limit, you know, I shouldn't have to. It's like everywhere I go and everything I want to do, it's like you got to join the network and give your give up your email. So I'm like, I'm now allowed.

Greg 00:46:29 Yeah. And now the person pulling out their phone and swiping through to try and find the app for whatever stupid store they're in so they can open the app and then sign in and then scan a QR code. That's the new version of the old lady with the check at the cashing machine. You know, back in the day where they're like 140 cents, only you know for sure.

Ed 00:46:49 No, you know, there's a Starbucks, there's a Starbucks near my university. And, I'm always stuck in line there, and there'll be some Korean people in front of me trying to use, like Samsung Pay, and they're trying to get it set up and like, and, you know, and I'm just like, just just use bots. Just just be be like a human being. But no, everything's got to be electronic. Yeah. And yeah.

Greg 00:47:09 Yeah. In their defense, some Starbucks don't even take cash anymore. So true that, between a rock and a hard place there. But.

Ed 00:47:16 All right, well, I guess we're a double low on that.

Greg 00:47:19 That was a good rant. Yeah. Yeah, I hate those things. So I'm never. I'm going to. I will pay money not to join them. How's that?

Ed 00:47:24 You're going to join a club that makes sure you don't have to join any other clubs?

Greg 00:47:29 That's right, that's right. Yeah. It's like having a having a master password for a password app on your computer. Like, I don't have to remember any passwords, except there's one password, which is the master of all passwords. One password to rule them all.

Ed 00:47:42 That's funny. All right, a final thanks to our patrons who support the show. Patrons get a ton of cool perks and the warm, fuzzy feeling knowing that they're helping and are never ending. Quest for cool content. Find out more by clicking support on our website and connect with us online or Bangkok podcast on social media Bangkok podcast.com on the web or simply Bangkok Podcast at gmail.com. We love hearing from our listeners and always reply to our messages.

Greg 00:48:09 Yeah, you can also listen to each episode on YouTube if you want.

Greg 00:48:12 Send a voicemail through our website that will feature on the show. Hit me up on threads at BCC. Greg. Thank you for listening folks, and we will see you back here next week for sure. Ahem. La di da.

Ed 00:48:53 Anyway, if you, watch any of the Menendez brothers stuff, you will have no, no doubt that you actually are a good father. So if you ever if you ever feel like God, I'm not really a good dad, just watch them and end his brother's show and you'll be like, I'm a saint.

Greg 00:49:14 I'm doing really good. man, I don't know. I got I just finished Breaking Bad. Now they got to watch El Camino, and then I got to watch Better Call Saul. And I got to catch up on Rings of Power. Then I got to catch up on crazy Game of Thrones prequel. Already forgot what it's called.

Ed 00:49:31 House of the House of the Dragon.

Greg 00:49:33 House. The dragon? Yes. Is so much to watch.