Regional Podcast Pals: Mike Tatarski on Producing the Vietnam Weekly from Ho Chi Minh City [S7.E21]

Greg (00:00:05) - On this episode, we talked to fellow podcaster Mike Tataki about making a show in Vietnam.

Ed (00:00:11) - So if you want to learn more about The Expat podcast and scene in Southeast Asia, you'll learn a lot on this episode of the Bangkok Podcast.

Greg (00:00:32) - Salwa Dhingra. And welcome to the Bangkok Podcast. My name is Greg Jorgensen, a Canadian who came to Thailand in 2001 with a dream of owning a little beer bar on a beach overlooking the fact that I am not a bar guy, only like beaches in small doses and can rarely drink more than two beers in a city, never worked out.

Ed (00:00:50) - It was a good idea.

Greg (00:00:51) - Nonetheless, it was a good idea.

Ed (00:00:52) - And I’m Ed Knuth, an American who came to Thailand on a one year teaching contract 23 years ago, fell in love with naturally underestimating Thai women's ages because they all look so young. So I never left.

Greg (00:01:06) - You gotta be careful with that in the West, right? You gotta. Or anywhere, really. You don't. You gotta sort of like, play your cards right, but.

Ed (00:01:13) - Oh, no, for sure, you know, and I don't want to generalize, of course, although that's exactly what I'm doing. Yeah, yeah, I think I think interacting well in general. Well, the interesting thing is in Thai culture, it's actually not rude to ask someone's age. So that's another twist to this whole thing in Thailand. Right? In Thailand around Thai women, you don't, you don't, you don't have to feel shy about asking their age. Something that I would suggest is a bad idea with almost all Western women. You're just not supposed to ask.

Greg (00:01:41) - That's right, that's right. You know, I've talked about on the show before too, is the the when. I don't know if you noticed, but most pregnant women are a lot of them that I've seen in Thailand where a little safety pin on the front of their dress.

Ed (00:01:54) - You know, you mentioned this to me on a show a couple of months ago, and I'd never noticed it before, but but you basically turn me on to this aspect of Thai culture.

Greg (00:02:02) - But you've seen it before, right? You've seen now you've seen it.

Ed (00:02:05) - To be honest, I'm not sure I've seen it, but I, I don't know, I'll keep my eyes open. I don't remember seeing it. But you taught me. You taught me this? Yeah.

Greg (00:02:14) - Once you see it, you're definitely be like, oh, that's it, that's it. So they were like a large safety pin on the front of their little maternity dress. but I guess that that is, I always sort of thought it was weird, and I never really understood why, but I guess that's a really good sign, because, you know that they're with child, so that gets you out of the ultimate social faux pas, which is saying when are you do? And then the woman says, what? I'm not pregnant. But it's just like, yeah, even worse than overestimating her age.

Ed (00:02:42) - That's the ultimate. No doubt about that.

Greg (00:02:44) - Anyway, that was a tangent.

Ed (00:02:45) - All righty. We want to give a big thanks to all of our patrons who support the show.

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Greg (00:03:53) - That's right. And also, don't forget, if you listen to us on Spotify, you can now hear all of the bonus shows there as well.

Greg (00:03:58) - If you're a patron, simply link your Patreon account to your Spotify account and add our new feed titled Bangkok Podcast Badass Patrons only to hear the regular and bonus shows in the same place. Alrighty then! Well, this episode is part one of a two part series that might turn into a 3 or 4 part series if our luck changes. And the idea for this episode came about when Ed and I were discussing if there were other regional podcasts like ours, that is, podcasts hosted by expats that discuss the issues they deal with as they try to assimilate to and understand their new homes and cultures. So we decided to start looking. But long story short, there weren't many in our little group. We found two podcasts similar to ours, to be precise, and this week is the first one. So we are going to be talking with my buddy Mike Tataki, who hosts the Vietnam Weekly podcast based in Ho Chi Minh City. Mike's show talks to people doing unique, important work in or about Vietnam in an aim to get a better understanding of that dynamic, increasingly important country.

Greg (00:04:59) - As we often say about podcasts, a rising tide lifts all boats, the more the merrier, etc. etc. and they are a great way to learn about what's going on in the region from people that are on the ground every day. So I called Mike in Ho Chi Minh City to talk about his show, how he puts it together, the issues he faces as he does so, and how it compares to our experiences doing a similar thing in Thailand. All right. I'm here with my buddy in Vietnam, Mr. Mike Tataki. He of the Vietnam Weekly podcast. Mike, welcome to the Bangkok Podcast.

Mike (00:05:38) - Thanks for having me, Greg. Good to be here.

Greg (00:05:40) - Yeah, well, thanks for agreeing to. Come on now, you and I have met once in real life. If I remember correctly, you were in town and we managed to have a bowl of noodles together. And, I've been following your podcast in Vietnam for the past couple of years since we met, and, it seems to be going really well.

Greg (00:05:56) - And I'm really excited that you're part of, this short little series that we're doing on our show here, because I thought it would be really fun to get to know fellow podcasters around Asia, because I would like to get to know fellow podcasters around Asia, specifically podcasters like yourself who talk about the country that you're based in. You know, like I think I said in the in the intro, there was there's a lot of podcasts that talk about general things and ideas around Southeast Asia, like travel or business or something like that, but those are fairly innocuous and fly above the radar or under the radar. I'm not sure how it goes, but I, I maybe, but I wanted to discuss what it was like being a podcaster in a country where you talk about that country and the intricacies and possible conflicts and dangers that brings, not like podcasters high on the list of most dangerous jobs or anything like that. So, but, tell us a little bit about the Vietnam Weekly podcast. How did it start and what do you do and how do you put it together?

Mike (00:06:55) - Sure.

Mike (00:06:56) - Yeah. So I, I guess I should start by saying it's been a bit, a bit of a drawn out process. So I mean, I've had my this was kind of borne out of my newsletter of the same, same name, which I guess I'll just plug Vietnam Weekly on, Substack, which. And then during the pandemic, I launched the podcast, you know, because like everybody else, stuck at home without much to do. right. And did, I think 5 or 6 episodes, I mean, this would have been back in 2021 or 22, I suppose. And then lockdown ended here and life rapidly went back to normal, and I kind of just dropped it and just stuck with the newsletter, which continued growing in the ensuing couple of years. And then, late last year, I actually did a three month or like 100 day program offered through, Cuny in New York, their graduate School of Journalism, an online program about entrepreneurial journalism. And that kind of like reignited the spark of wanting to get back to podcasting.

Mike (00:07:54) - I mean, a few people had kind of said I should anyway, especially I already had a feed and all that stuff. It was just dormant. And then. Yeah, relaunched it in early February right around Lunar New Year. Yeah. So there was kind of like a two year gap, in episodes. but now it's been it's good. It's been I've really been enjoying it over the last couple of months. actually, I when I relaunched it, I said I was going to do it every two weeks and kind of got so excited and much to my, relief, like people just said yes when I asked if they wanted to come on. So I was like, well, I'll just do it weekly because I ended up having several kind of in the can. ready to go. I'll see how long I can maintain that cadence, but I'm really enjoying it so far.

Greg (00:08:38) - And it's just you that does it. Or do you have some friends and a team? I think I've heard a couple of co-hosts on on previous episodes.

Mike (00:08:44) - No, no, this is all me. I so.

Greg (00:08:46) - Okay, maybe I was wrong.

Mike (00:08:47) - Yeah. So I mean, I did I was previously at second year and had the second year podcast, which I like co started. So I there was co-host on that one my friends Paul and COI. But this one is separate from second year. yeah. But like with the newsletter it's, it's just me. I should probably try to get a bit of help someday because it, it is a bit of take some time. but yeah, it's just me as of now.

Greg (00:09:12) - It's funny that your story, because it's roughly similar to what what I did with the Bangkok Podcast, because season one started with my co-host Tony, and he moved to Japan, and we sort of said.

Mike (00:09:23) - Like, I remember hearing some of those.

Greg (00:09:24) - Yeah, we're like, all right, well, that was fun. And, you know, let's get on with our lives. And then I randomly met Ivo at a party and he said, you know, your podcast still gets like X number of listeners every month.

Greg (00:09:34) - You should start it up again. I was like, oh, well, all right, well, I'll need a co-host. And he's like, I'm free. So. So we started season two and we've been doing it every week ever since. So it's funny how you, those, these things sort of like you abandon them, but they sort of stick to you and come back in.

Mike (00:09:50) - I know for sure, I guess. I guess that's. I mean, it's good if you if it comes back around, that means, you know, there must be people out there enjoying it and appreciating it, I guess.

Greg (00:09:58) - So, yeah. Now my podcast, The Bangkok Podcast, is sort of more of a smartass, fun, laid back discussion style look at life in Bangkok, Thailand. But the tone of your show is a little bit more serious, a little bit more professional. What what kind of angle are you going for and what kind of guests do you have on?

Mike (00:10:16) - Yeah. So it's I mean, since it's kind of spun out of my newsletter, which is well, newsy and I mean, I'll, I'll add in a touch of sarcasm or snark when it's called for, but generally covers pretty serious topics.

Mike (00:10:33) - sometimes, I mean, sometimes I worry too serious, but hey, that's that's news and journalism, I suppose. But kind of starting out, I mean, it was looking at topics I cover a lot in the newsletter, like, you know, the Mekong River or Mekong Delta, energy policy, kind of geopolitics, those sorts of things. And then and then looking I just drew up a Google, Google doc of people I know, who I could ask to be on the show, some of whom I know like pretty well, or at least have their direct contact info. Other people who maybe I've seen on LinkedIn but would be kind of a cold contact. and I will say, that's not to toot my own horn, but that's kind of been a nice thing where I've reached out to some people I've never communicated with and ask them if they want to be on, and they'll be like, oh, I love the love the newsletter, I love the podcast. Happy to join. So that's nice.

Mike (00:11:22) - Nice because you don't always know, obviously who's, you know, consuming your your your work. Right.

Greg (00:11:28) - Some validation there. Right.

Mike (00:11:30) - Yeah. And then I suppose in terms of format, I mean it's kind of I'm not I don't hope I'm not copying anything, but kind of inspired by the likes of, I guess maybe, as reclines like New York podcast for the New York Times or sort of these like interview format, you know, fresh air or what have you. Although Terry Gross can be maybe a bit more lighthearted at times. but kind of these one on one, interview style shows. And I mean, most of what I listen to comes from the States, for better or worse. And yeah, I mean, it's still early days, like I've thought about eventually trying to play around with format a little bit. I mean, I did have one episode or I've had a couple episodes with two guests. But yeah, for now, it's kind of. What topics do I find interesting about Vietnam? do I know someone who I think would be able to to speak intelligently on it? and also trying to have a good mix of, you know, gender balance.

Mike (00:12:28) - I don't want it to just be other, well, especially white guys like me talking about Vietnam. Obviously, there's not a problem with having some of those people on. I've had a few, but trying to have mixed it up with Vietnamese, especially Vietnamese women if possible, or, you know, other expatriate nationalities, what have you.

Greg (00:12:45) - Right, right. Let's talk about that for a second, because that's interesting. And that's also something that we struggle with here, because we're very cognizant of the fact that, it's very easy to come off as just like, you know, another two assholes from outside of Thailand spouting off about Thai culture. And I think if you do that too much and then you just have other white guys on white men on the show, it just becomes sort of like a little shooting gallery, and it can be very easy to be for someone to take that the wrong way. So we also try to get as many times as possible on as many Thai women as possible on.

Greg (00:13:21) - It's great, but it's not always easy and a lot of times not a lot of times. But from time to time I have gotten criticism. We have gotten criticism from someone, why don't you get a Thai person to talk about this? And my response is always, I would love to. Do you know, any and 99% of the time it's like, well, no. I was like, well, neither do I, and I don't know how to meet them. So, let me know when you know one, because let me ask what your, your experience is, because for us, a lot of times, like there's a lot of topics we'd love to talk about, we'd love to talk about infrastructure and the, the clogs and how the government works and education and the banking system, all this stuff. But what we find often is that it's really hard to find someone who's who's really good in English, B who is comfortable coming on and talking on the record publicly about what they do in any official capacity, and see someone who's not afraid of pissing off someone higher than than them and entirely say pushy like their boss or a manager or something like that.

Greg (00:14:19) - So it's really hard to find an official in any capacity to come on and talk in any official capacity. Do you find the same thing in Vietnam?

Mike (00:14:27) - I haven't quite run into that yet, but I that probably will happen eventually again, since I'm still kind of in early days, I suppose I've, I guess I'm a bit concerned that I'm getting some of my easiest potential guests out of the way early, just it's like, I know this person will say yes, or someone I've talked to a bunch in the past. Like I'm pretty confident they'll say, yes, we'll see you in, six months or something like that. but certainly there are topics that. I mean, I know, like, I won't be touching on, simply because it won't really be possible. I mean, you mentioned culture, like Vietnamese culture is something I would like to learn more about. Like, it's not something I really touch on in the newsletter very much. that's definitely one area where I try to tread lightly as a foreigner, even if I have lived here for a while.

Mike (00:15:15) - Like, I don't think necessarily I think people need to know or want to know what I think of Vietnamese movies or or music or something.

Greg (00:15:22) - Along those lines.

Mike (00:15:23) - That that is something I would like to try to talk about on the podcast at some point. But like you said, you know, finding the right person. and then on some issues, I mean, I did an episode about the anti-corruption campaign, which is a huge story here. And I think a few people I told a few people I was doing that and they were like, good luck. but I had a great guest. I mean, I've had a few, like, overseas Vietnamese who actually, I think they're all based in Australia, funnily enough, but we're fantastic guests. and there was one, had another episode where I sent some questions in advance, and the guest asked if I could change a couple just they weren't totally comfortable with my phrasing, which that's completely fair. Yeah. and, you know, I'll, I'll hold back myself on, on some issues.

Mike (00:16:11) - I don't want to, you know, be right. Trying not to be stupid about anything. yeah, but it is something that's, I imagine, in the future, as you know, I kind of, like, search for more ideas and topics to talk about. It may be a little complicated.

Greg (00:16:26) - It can. It can get a bit complicated. I remember years ago, we we wanted to do a show when King Rama the ninth passed away. We wanted to do a show about why he was such a big influence on Thailand, and why Thai people cared so much for him, and why he meant so much to the Thai people. and we recorded the show and it was very respectful and very, very above the board. There was nothing at all controversial about it, but I sent it around to a few friends, just as like, hey, do you want to give this a listen? Like, is there anything here that seems off or weird that we should be worried about? And one friend got back to me with some very, very good advice and he said, no, it's fine.

Greg (00:17:02) - But you know what? Foreigners don't need to have an opinion on everything. And I was like, yeah, you're right, you're right. So, so we didn't do that show. We killed it. and in its place, we did a show about self-censorship, which is what a reality of being a media personality in Thailand is sometimes bumps up against, you know.

Mike (00:17:20) - Of course. Yeah, yeah. I mean, same here. And I know in the journalism world, at least, and in some countries that have the luxury of self-censorship is kind of anathema. I mean, it's like a cardinal sin, but if you live in and you want to continue living in places like Thailand, I suppose, or Vietnam, it's something you you have to practice from time to time.

Greg (00:17:40) - yeah. It's it's a it's a necessary evil. Yeah.

Mike (00:17:42) - And that's a smart point as well. Like we I think we can all I'm sure you and I have plenty of internal opinions that maybe we just share with our close friends, or just keep entirely to ourselves that don't necessarily need to be on mic or or written out.

Greg (00:17:57) - Yeah, totally. And sometimes I do get, again, we get some, some emails from time to time why you should talk about this and you should talk about this, and why didn't you do this and some critical emails and a lot of the times it's warranted. But, a lot of the times it's not. And my stock response is, you know what? Podcasting is free, man. Go ahead, start your podcast. Let me know in the first episode is up and I will subscribe. But yeah, I'll do my show and you do your show.

Mike (00:18:23) - Yeah. That's something I feel, and I will say, I mean, there are a few other English language podcasts or maybe more than a few, here in Vietnam. I definitely don't want to pretend like I'm the only one. although I am one of the few kind of focusing on more news, more of a news lens or news angle, what have you. But I feel similarly with my newsletter is, I. I don't want to sound overly like.

Mike (00:18:48) - In my head, but I'm aware that I'm a foreign foreigner here, and I wish there would be more like Vietnam. There's a lot of really, really smart Vietnamese people and, you know, other non Vietnamese here in Vietnam who I think, like, I would love to hear more voices in the newsletter and podcast space as well. like you said, it's free to or largely free to set up. You can do it pretty low tech. so it is something I mean, we were talking before you started recording about having a hard time finding other podcasters in the region, and, yeah, it would be cool if there were more in English at the very least.

Greg (00:19:24) - Yeah, I would say a rising tide lifts all boats, so the more the better, I think. I think it'd be great, but it seems it seems like a lot of podcasts, come and go and people have the idea I want to do a show, and then they do 2 or 3 and go, man, this is a lot of work.

Greg (00:19:37) - And then stop.

Mike (00:19:38) - Yeah. I mean, it is no doubt.

Greg (00:19:40) - What's the podcast community there? Like, in Thailand, like the Thai language podcast community is quite big, but it's fairly opaque to me because I don't speak so well and I don't listen to Thai podcasts. So, I don't have any exposure to that. But from what I understand, it's quite big and quite active. What what's it like there with the Vietnamese podcasts and then the, the, the foreign community who might or the Thai community as well, who listens to your podcast?

Mike (00:20:06) - Yeah, I mean, it's similar for me with the Vietnamese language podcast side because my Vietnamese is, well, let's just say it's not good enough to listen to a podcast, unfortunately. so I know there is some sort of, industry there. I mean, I believe it's relatively small, but there's something, I mean, there's a media company called V, etc. that has, I think, one kind of flagship English show and then a handful of Vietnamese shows.

Greg (00:20:35) - V at Cetera. That's a great name.

Mike (00:20:39) - yeah. I mean, they're kind of more on the culture, I think a bit kind of like Gen Z focused. okay. And then and then there's a couple other, I know of English language ones, like 7 million bikes by a guy named Neil, here in Hickman City. And then, my friend Ian Payton in Hanoi has one called, you don't know, Vietnam, which I like a lot. He started, I think, last year. But kind of I mean, as the title suggests, kind of tries to, maybe disabuse is a strong word, but kind of takes on like maybe misunderstandings or misconceptions about Vietnam. often with Vietnamese guests. which is really his is quite interesting. But there's not like a community per se. there's probably some others that I'm leaving out. not not by any malice or anything like that, but, there's it's small for sure.

Greg (00:21:35) - Right, right. what about your listeners? Like, do you have any meet ups or does the Vietnam Weekly thing, like, does it do any any outreach or community?

Mike (00:21:45) - I've definitely thought about it.

Mike (00:21:47) - I mean, that that course I mentioned that I did, late last year, I mean, it was a bit us. It was I mean, it set it was, was based out of New York, so understandably a bit US centric and kind of like having meetups or events was something they really talked about a lot for, you know, creators, for lack of a better word. I haven't got a gun. I haven't done that. I mean, part of that is a bit my own introversion. like or fear of, like, what if I host something and, like, one person comes? I mean, I know I have a lot more readers or listeners than that, but there is that fear. so I think it's something I, I'll probably get do eventually. I don't know if I would ever do like a live podcast show or something like that, but certainly some kind of meet up would be nice. there is a, a little there is a, a slightly larger like, newsletter writer community that has kicked around.

Mike (00:22:41) - The idea of meeting up hasn't quite happened yet, but, okay. maybe I should, like, also try a bit harder to make that happen.

Greg (00:22:49) - You lead it. Become become the the guy in charge.

Mike (00:22:53) - Yeah, yeah.

Greg (00:22:54) - That seems like it sounds like a lot of work. so it was the one thing I really wanted to talk about. And I'm going to be talking, to everyone who's on this little series we're doing here about this. Is it? we touched on it really briefly earlier about things you can't talk about in Thailand or in Vietnam now. obviously in Thailand, there's the royal family, and there's certain things as well that are just best left untouched, unsaid, undiscussed. of course, if you discuss those things and get noticed by the right slash wrong person, then you could be in serious, serious trouble. And you know, I'm not here to win any Pulitzer Prizes. I'm just a due to the microphone. I've got too much to lose. So, I imagine it's the same in Vietnam.

Greg (00:23:38) - And I wanted to talk to you about how you navigate that, because just recently in the news, there was the case of the the big corruption scandal. And the woman who got nailed for that, I mean, she got the death sentence. So Vietnam doesn't mess around, man. so how do you navigate that? And what happens if you go too far into an area you're not supposed to?

Mike (00:24:02) - well, that's that second question I hope to never learn the answer to, because I'm not actually. You want the.

Greg (00:24:07) - Answer to stay? I have no idea.

Mike (00:24:09) - Yeah, yeah. I mean, I mean, the reality is, there foreigners certainly have a buffer, which is, I mean, obviously unfair for, for Vietnamese nationals, but that's the reality. I assume it's maybe a little bit similar in Thailand, at least. That being said, I mean, as I mentioned earlier, like, I'm not going to do anything stupid. I mean, I've been here, I've lived here a while.

Mike (00:24:33) - I have some sense of, I mean, there I think there are some pretty clear red lines. There's other maybe grey grey lines or things. You just have to kind of guess, you know, but certainly like I'm not going to criticize individual high level leaders or anything like that. I mean, with that kind of stuff, I'm always this it's I'm not from here. This isn't my country. It's not my place to do that. Anyway, even if I were like, that just wouldn't make any sense.

Greg (00:25:02) - Do you feel like, though, after being there for so long for X number of years. How long have you been in Vietnam?

Mike (00:25:09) - about 12 years now.

Greg (00:25:10) - Okay. Did you think that after 12 years, maybe you should be playing devil's advocate? You should be afforded the the opportunity to be a bit critical and a bit sort of to be able to offer constructive criticism. I feel like I should in Thailand, like I've been here 23 years. I feel like I've earned the right to offer constructive criticism.

Greg (00:25:30) - Do you do you feel like maybe you that foreigners should be allowed to to do that?

Mike (00:25:37) - Yeah, I suppose so. And I mean, I, I hope some of what I mean, something I haven't had an episode about on the podcast, but I do cover a lot in the newsletters infrastructure. And I think maybe that's one area where I think if I were to talk about it and if I write about it, I hope sometimes it comes up, comes off as constructive, or it comes off as like, look, I'm a Ho Chi Minh City resident. I know all the Vietnamese people living here want, you know, the metro line to be finished has been, you know, we've been waiting for so long. so that kind of stuff, I guess. I hope it comes off as just like. You know, a concerned resident, basically. And I mean, on the political side, I think, you know, that's a bit more complicated, especially, I suppose, in a form of government like we have here.

Mike (00:26:27) - but I think that all that being said, I do think there is. A bit more space for people to be critical here than kind of generally believed. I mean, it won't necessarily lead to anything, but. Oh, interesting. I do see a lot of comments on I mean, Facebook's a cesspool, but I'll see people post up on Facebook and I'm like, wow, you really and I'm talking about foreigners here. and like, they continue living here, right.

Greg (00:26:57) - In Thailand, I think. And I think it's probably the same over there. Generally we stay away from, you know, being overly critical of big companies, being overly critical of individual people if they're well connected or wealthy, or royal families, obviously well out of bounds. anything sort of touching on the Thai national identity or history that gets a bit too close for comfort is probably best left alone. I think probably that would cover most of what we have to dance around. Is there anything else specific in Vietnam that you would probably that someone who living there would probably be wise to avoid commenting on?

Mike (00:27:34) - certainly land issues.

Mike (00:27:36) - That's kind of historically a big issue. I mean, just last summer, there was an attack in the Central Highlands, that killed like nine people, which for here was like kind of a shocking spasm of violence. And, that was one where, yeah, I, I did have a section about it in the newsletter, but I, I even put I was like, caveat, I am strictly saying what's in domestic media. I am not like editorializing anything on this. well it was kind of a confluence of land and also ethnic minority, tensions, which those two combined like just don't even go anywhere near that. Oh, interesting. Yeah. So that definitely that, And I mean, for me personally, because I, I use state media as like a handy guide for like basically if they're talking about something, I'll be like, oh, well then like that's kind of gotten the green light to be discussed. right. Maybe I'll go a little bit further than them. but like with this corruption campaign, for example, I, you know, once an official or something is like arrested or removed from office, then it's like, well, okay, now we can.

Mike (00:28:48) - I mean, I don't have anything personal to add about the chairman of some province or something like that, but if it's if they're in trouble, it's pretty clear that you don't really need to worry about it at that point.

Greg (00:28:59) - right, right.

Mike (00:29:00) - Again, not that I'm going to, like, criticize them personally, but you can be like, here's what they did and here's why they got in trouble. it's a good.

Greg (00:29:06) - Rule of thumb.

Mike (00:29:07) - So yeah, I mean and I again I'll add a bit more context maybe or analysis, which can definitely be lacking in some of the coverage here.

Greg (00:29:19) - Yeah. I think I mentioned we were chatting earlier, over email and I said one of the peculiarities of Thai law is that even if something is true, it doesn't mean you can't be nailed taken to court for saying it publicly. So, that's like libel and defamation. So, you know, there's all these, like, uniquely. Local twists to the law and things that maybe those Westerners were not. We're not used to.

Greg (00:29:43) - So sure it's it. It pays to stay on top of those things and those little nuances.

Mike (00:29:50) - Yeah, yeah. And I mean with my like I haven't had. Or even a prospective guest, where it's been like, our topic is going to be one. Or maybe it'll I mean, there's people I want to have on who we'll talk about, like their company. but I haven't like, there's nobody I've had in mind where it's like, we're going to spend an entire episode criticizing conglomerate X. yeah. Right, right. I just don't think that, like, that wouldn't really make much sense. How do you.

Greg (00:30:16) - Say. Cease and desist in Vietnamese.

Mike (00:30:19) - Right, right.

Greg (00:30:22) - let's, as we're finishing up here, let's get down to brass tacks as a as a podcast nerd. how do you come up with your ideas? You said you just think about stuff that you'd like to talk about. How do you find your guests?

Mike (00:30:34) - yeah. So I mean, I think I kind of referenced, but so I when I was launching or getting ready for my first episodes, like put in just went through my kind of like mental Rolodex of, like immediate people who came immediately to mind, started putting writing them out on a Google sheet, or doc, whatever.

Mike (00:30:53) - Not to know free ads for Google here. and then, yeah, I reached out to a few people that again, kind of ones that I was like, they'll definitely say yes, or I'm 99% sure they'll say yes. And then others. I've been kind of relying more on LinkedIn since Twitter kind of fell apart. and that's been good for finding some people as well, or at least seeing what. Seeing what people are talking about related to Vietnam. and then, I mean, guiding the news or being guided by the news a little bit. I've actually gotten really lucky twice. I've had two episodes, one, well, one on the anti-corruption campaign and then one on, like financing the energy transition that came out like within a day or two of major news breaking and within those topics. So I was like, well, I did not plan that, but cool. and then, I mean, it's also been nice. I've gotten I mean, I'm only a couple months in, but I've had a few people reach out to me and be like, hey, here's what I do.

Mike (00:31:52) - Do you want to, like, could I be a guest? Oh, cool, cool. And they've been doing like, they're doing interesting stuff as well. So, so that that's been that like I hope to see more of that because obviously I can't be aware of it's a one man team. I'm not aware of everyone doing everything interesting about Vietnam.

Greg (00:32:10) - yeah. That's interesting. I wish we'd get more people reaching out to us. The last time I remember. Someone reach out and ask to be on the show, he wanted to talk about what it was like dating Thai women. Oh, like, that's not going to happen.

Mike (00:32:21) - Yes. Yeah.

Mike (00:32:24) - yeah. And then, I mean, there's really no. Otherwise the order of topics is kind of just like, whatever I can get scheduled or whoever I can get scheduled and edited first. I mean, if you look at the feed, it's, I mean, it's pretty eclectic. I mean, there are a few topics that I'll be returning to, like the Mekong Delta or Energy, for example.

Mike (00:32:43) - There's just there's so much to talk about within those topics and different angles you can come at it from. And I know people kind of working in different fields within those, overarching subjects. So that's that's something I know I in the future I'll be I'll have more episodes on that, but otherwise it's. Yeah, I mean, kind of in any given week I'll have a few emails out to people, probably a couple interviews scheduled. but from week to week there's not really any, you know, connection between episodes. And I mean, that's kind of what I was intending. I mean, if you look at the shows in the US, I mentioned as sort of, inspiration, you know, from week to week, they're not really building off of each other topic wise.

Greg (00:33:30) - Right? It's totally random in the same way. Same with us. We're just making it up as we go. And, doing a weekly show is not easy. Like I say, there's there are many times where AD and I are sitting in front of the microphones ready to record, going, what are we going to talk about? We're both looking at the newspapers.

Greg (00:33:45) - What do we keep talking about? This know that sucks. I don't know this. Well, maybe, but we already did. Did we do that before? Oh, yeah, we did, you know. So it's the more shows you do, the harder it is to find those cracks to fill that you've never done before.

Mike (00:33:56) - So yeah, I definitely when I was doing when I was at second year and we were doing that show that was weekly for I mean, it ran I think we did around 100 episodes and there were definitely weeks where and that was not we some episodes had guests, most didn't, but there were definitely weeks where we were like, oh boy, what the hell are we gonna like? Well, last week did if if what would your Vietnamese superhero be? What are we going to talk about this. I mean, some of those segments, like, were a lot of fun and I think came out really well, but okay.

Greg (00:34:26) - Can I steal that idea for Thailand? That's a good point.

Mike (00:34:28) - So I guess actually one nice thing again, ask me again in six months maybe, but so far with it being interview focused is like as long as there's a guess, like we have a topic and right, I don't have to like wonder what it's going to be about. but again, we'll see. how long I can do this. Cool. You know, once a week or.

Greg (00:34:49) - Yeah. Well, you never know. I mean, we started it on a whim, and it's it's been, what, 13 years now, so. I wouldn't break in there. Yeah. Cool, man. Well, last question before we go then. And I'm curious what other people think about this. Why do you do your podcast? What what do you get out of it?

Mike (00:35:11) - I mean, so certainly, I mean, it's edifying for me. I learn from my guests. I mean, that's part of, I mean, I think obviously kind of the core of being a reporter is curiosity and wanting to learn.

Mike (00:35:24) - obviously you need to have or you should have some sort of base knowledge on certain topics. But I think most of the episodes I've done so far, it's topics that I do have a little bit of fluency in it at least, but I certainly want to. I hope to get to somewhere I'm coming at. I mean, I don't want to come in blind because I want to have smart questions for the guest, but, You know something where I can learn a lot. And, I mean, it's similar to why I started the the newsletter. I and I think the feedback I've gotten to both since starting them is that like there's a real gap, unfortunately, in English language. content. I don't like that word, but whatever. For lack of a better word about Vietnam, contemporary Vietnam. I mean, there's a ton out there still about the war. And I don't want to dismiss the war. It's it's very important as history. but, you know, this is a much more dynamic, interesting country than just kind of that pigeon hole.

Mike (00:36:21) - And now there's kind of this the actually the narrative has changed a bit about Vietnam, but now it's it's modernized in a way internationally. But now it's often seen as like this kind of pawn between China and the US, which has its, you know, interesting narrative of its own, but it's far more complex than that. Yeah. So I think just trying to. Share the modern Vietnam, sort of, warts and all. But it's, you know, the complexities and the different wide range of. Topics. I mean, it deserves to be covered as in-depth as places like the US. I'm not saying I'm doing that by myself, but if I can do some tiny part in that, I hope I'll have done what I set out to achieve.

Greg (00:37:01) - That's great. And that's funny because when I when we were first starting to do the podcast, I remember I was talking to a guy that I randomly an old acquaintance who I haven't spoken to in years since, but I told him that we were going to start a podcast and he said, are you going to do it about all like the all the red light districts and all the bars? And I said, no, actually, we're not going to do anything about that.

Greg (00:37:17) - And he said, well, good luck. And I was like, that's exactly why we're going to do it, because there's so much more to talk about than just those stupid cliches. And that's what we want to get to the root of.

Mike (00:37:26) - Yeah. No, that's that's great. I mean, it's good to good to hear that as well.

Greg (00:37:31) - Yeah. Well Mike thanks, man. That was really interesting. And, you're doing a really good job. Where can people find out more? And what what do they get and what can they what can they learn?

Mike (00:37:41) - Yeah, sure. I mean, so the podcast is on, I think basically all I mean, there's so many podcast platforms, I know it's on all the major ones Spotify, Apple. I put up just the audio on YouTube. It's Vietnam Weekly on YouTube. it should be on oh, Google, if you have Android, it should be on most of the other niche players, I assume. yeah. So the Vietnam Weekly podcast and then my newsletter as well is the same name.

Mike (00:38:08) - link is Vietnam weekly.substack.com. There's a free and a paid version. yeah. And podcast comes out every week. Newsletter is weekly, as the name suggests.

Mike (00:38:20) - And, yeah that's great.

Greg (00:38:23) - Oh, right. Oh, man. Well, thanks a lot for coming on. A pleasure to talk to you again. And, next time I'm in Ho Chi Minh or next time you're in Bangkok, let's let's grab some more noodles. I gotta say, man, when my family was in, was in Ho Chi Minh got about six, six, eight months ago, and, really loved it. What a great city. And I think Thai food gets all the love, but Vietnamese food is pretty damn good.

Mike (00:38:46) - Yeah. It's fantastic. I mean, I also enjoy Thai, but Vietnamese is just so diverse and, so much more kind of beyond the the typical bonhomie that everyone knows, which those are great, but there's way, way more to it than that. And great to join. Come on the show.

Mike (00:39:00) - Thanks for having me I enjoyed this.

Greg (00:39:02) - No, I played my pleasure, man. And like I said, a rising tide lifts all boats. And I hope that, more, more podcasters in Asia can get the word out about the nuances and depths and cultural, fascinations of the particular countries or communities they're in. So I think we're part of that. And like you said, we're doing a small part, but it's still a part. So yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Mike (00:39:22) - And there's and there's definitely an audience for it as well. So yeah. Join join the club.

Greg (00:39:27) - Right on. All right. Thanks man I hope to see you soon. And, Yeah, let me know if you're in town. We'll get a noodle, a beer and some noodles. Sounds good.

Ed (00:39:44) - Man, that was really interesting. I feel like he is kind of a kindred soul. Mike is a kindred soul of ours.

Greg (00:39:51) - Yeah, it's very interesting. And he does really good stuff. You know, he's he's his his angle is a bit more studious and serious than us.

Greg (00:39:57) - Like he's a journalist. And he says his podcast is in pursuit of being a journalist, whereas ours is a bit more loosey goosey, smartass and fun. But, in a very, very good listen and it's like I said, a really good way to learn about the countries that are right now.

Ed (00:40:11) - In some ways, his experience is like ours in that, you know, he's got to worry about what he says, I mean, for different reasons than we do. but he's still constrained. I think maybe any time you're in a public space, you know, I mean, I hardly ever post on social media, but before I do, I'm always thinking. I'm always thinking before I post anything.

Greg (00:40:30) - Yeah, exactly. And I think I mentioned in the show too, like, you know, we think Thailand is strict too, but Vietnam doesn't mess around, man. Like I mentioned in the interview, you know that that woman that just did that insane corruption where she skimmed like $1 billion or something from the company and they sentenced her to death, you know, like.

Ed (00:40:46) - Oh, wow, I think I missed that story.

Greg (00:40:48) - Yeah. Within within like several like within a couple of months of the story breaking, like they'd already taken her down. So, yeah, really interesting to hear what's going on. And, Mike does really good work. He also does a Substack newsletter. So like I said, he's a real journalist. Cool.

Ed (00:41:03) - Very cool.

Greg (00:41:04) - Yeah. So, thanks for chatting, Mike. It's interesting. And everyone check it out. The Vietnam Weekly podcast, subscribe to the newsletter, and let's all, put our heads together and start talking about this, this region that we live in and the dynamism that we enjoy being among. Is that good?

Mike (00:41:20) - For sure.

Ed (00:41:20) - Thanks, Mike.

Greg (00:41:21) - Thanks, Mike. Okay, let's check in with our new segment called Idiom Proof, where we try to learn a bit more about Thai culture by investigating one of the many funny and creative Thai idioms that we've come across. To help us with the correct pronunciation. We've asked our friend Bank to read it for us first and then we will discuss take it away bank.

Bank (00:41:38) - Manao mai mee nam. Manso mai mee nam.

Ed (00:41:42) - Oh wow. I've never heard this, but I like it now. Miami Nam.

Greg (00:41:46) - Yeah, Manao mai mee nam. Which means a lime without water. And what that means is that you speak very terse and coarsely, and not in the syrupy sweet way that most Thais like.

Ed (00:42:01) - Are so lime without water. Salt means like a dried up. Like a dried up lime.

Greg (00:42:05) - I get like lime juice without water, like just tart and like right to the point. There's nothing nice about it.

Ed (00:42:11) - Oh, like kind of harsh. Like an interesting.

Greg (00:42:13) - Sour because, you know, with a lot of, a lot of Thai language, you've got to use like special words, polite words. You got to y depending on the status of the person.

Ed (00:42:23) - So you have to be you got to be syrupy sweet. That's the perfect way to put it. And I guess a dried up lime is not syrupy sweet.

Greg (00:42:29) - That's right. So now maybe Nam I think is is.

Greg (00:42:33) - Yeah, it's pretty good. So just I'm gonna I'm.

Ed (00:42:35) - Gonna I'm gonna have to bus anytime. I think someone's being too harsh on me. I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna bust this one out and see. See what kind of reaction I get.

Greg (00:42:41) - Just under your breath, be like, oh, man. Manao mai mee nam. And that's how I got my black eye. I'm gonna port some of these across to English to like, next time I'm talking to someone who's, you know, talking too bluntly, I'll just whisper to my friend on the side. I'm like, man, this guy's like a dried up lime.

Mike (00:42:58) - See?

Greg (00:42:59) - See if they get it.

Ed (00:42:59) - But it might. It might catch on. You never.

Greg (00:43:01) - Know. I mean, you never know, but I like that one by now. I mean, damn, that's pretty good. Thanks. Bank. that's a new one. I'll put in the old, lexicon, and I'll whip it out at parties for sure.

Ed (00:43:12) - Alrighty.

Ed (00:43:13) - A final thanks to our patrons who support the show. Patrons get a ton of cool perks and the warm, fuzzy feeling knowing that they're helping and are never ending. Quest for cool content? Find out more by clicking support on our website and connect with us online. Where Bangkok podcasts on social media, Bangkok Podcast, comm on the web or simply Bangkok Podcast at gmail.com. We love hearing from our listeners and always reply to our messages.

Greg (00:43:40) - Yeah baby! You can also listen to each episode on YouTube. You can send us a voicemail through our website that will feature on the show. Hit me up on threads at BKKGreg. Thanks for listening everyone. Enjoy the rain and I'll see you back here next week for sure.