The Russians are Coming! What the Influx Means for Phuket [S7.E62]

Greg 00:00:36 Sawat Dee Krap and welcome to the Bangkok Podcast. My name is Greg Jorgensen, a Canadian who came to Thailand in 2001 solely because my high school yearbook, miss McDonnell, wrote, blaze your own path, so I did. Thanks miss McDonald.

Ed 00:00:50 And I am Ed Knuth an American who came to Thailand on a one year teaching contract 24 years ago, fell in love with explaining to Thai people that John Denver's Country Roads is not actually the peak of American music. So I never left.

Greg 00:01:06 Let's have one question. What the hell are you talking about? That is a great song.

Ed 00:01:11 Well, let's just say it's a good song, but it does not deserve the the the praise it gets in Thailand and apparently all of Asia, apparently all of Asia loves that song.

Greg 00:01:22 It does really, really capture a sort of a geographic cultural snapshot like very few other songs do. It's really, really good.

Ed 00:01:32 Well, we did do a show trying to explain why certain songs are popular in Thailand, and we never really came up with a great answer. Country roads is is so sentimental. I think that's that's part of it. Thai people are very sentimental.

Greg 00:01:45 I think that's right, that's right. Yeah.

Ed 00:01:48 It must be it. All right. I want to give a big thanks to all of our patrons who support the show. Patrons get every episode a day early, behind the scenes photos of our interviews, a heads up to send questions to upcoming guests and access to our discord server to chat with me, Greg and other listeners around the world. But best of all, patrons also get an unscripted, uncensored bonus episode every week where we riff on current events and Bangkok topics on this week's bonus show. We chatted about the Oscars and why Thai movie audiences don't get as rowdy as audiences back home.

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Greg 00:02:51 That's right. And don't forget, you can leave us a voicemail. You can tell give us a show idea. I just want to say hi at the Bangkok podcast.com. click the little microphone button on the bottom right to leave us a voicemail that will play on the show. Alrighty then. Well, on this episode we want to talk about something that's been in the news lately. Now, if you've seen any headlines about southern Thailand, specifically Phuket, you've probably seen the words Russian invasion several times. That's right. Now, while we think that particular word may be a bit of overkill, there's no denying that Phuket, as well as other places in Thailand, have seen a massive increase in long term Russian expats, especially in the wake of the war with Ukraine.

Greg 00:03:27 Now, Ed and I both have Russian friends and acquaintances. Even some listeners of the show shout out to Maria and Nikki, who are all lovely people. But questions are being asked of how much is too much? That also got us thinking what is the national breaking point of Thai culture? When do things go from Welcome to Thailand to oh my God, everyone here is Russian or whatever nationality any particular want to fill in the blank with? So we thought this would be an interesting discussion and, you know, kicking it off, I want to say that one of the things that often pokes its head up and Reddit boards and discussions, and often sitting around the table at a pub or something like that about foreigners living in Thailand is that we are tolerated but not loved or welcomed or something. Some variation thereof, right? so yeah, I think Thai Thai culture is very welcoming of foreigners. But like with anything there, there must be a breaking point somewhere for sure.

Ed 00:04:20 I mean, I think this is a complicated question.

Ed 00:04:22 I, I have talked to my students in class before about how Thailand talent's identity is not multicultural. I think almost every country in the world is in fact multicultural, but it doesn't mean it's part of your identity. So Thai people don't think of Thailand as a place for people of all races and all colors. That's just not part of the their idea that, you know, they don't have the same rainbow that, some Western countries have. But at the but the but the other flip side is, of course, Thai people are famously warm and welcoming, at least to tourists. but, you know, remember how you know, I'm not an expert on a UT, but wasn't a UT famous for having, you know, a Dutch community and a Portuguese community. So there were foreign enclaves going back a couple hundred years, right?

Greg 00:05:17 Yeah, I think there was. And even back, after a uto when they came down to Bangkok and settled the new capital, you know, there was the Portuguese community, there was Curry Chin where the Santa Cruz churches and there was the French community.

Greg 00:05:30 And so there's definitely been little pockets of expats going back hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years now. They were bubbles in a sort of figurative sense, as well as almost a physical sense. It was like, oh, over there, that's where you live. So. So it's sort of crosses that barrier between like just saying it and then actually making it so physically. So.

Ed 00:05:53 Right. Well, one of my old, one of my old jokes when I first, First was reading about Thai history, and I learned that there were Portuguese here. In the 1500s is, I was I used to ask my Thai friends, like, where are the white Thai people, you know, contact. How? Like if they're if there's been white people here for so long, how come there are no white Thai people? and and the truth is that talent has been. What's the right word? The bottom line is Thailand is accepting of foreigners living here, but foreigners don't really assimilate. Obviously, there are mixed marriages.

Ed 00:06:33 I'm not talking about that. But they are essentially these communities of let's just focus on Westerners for now. these communities of Westerners, they never grow, you know, like my, you know, if there were Portuguese or French here 400 years ago, why is there not why is 20% of the population not White. You know, it's my question. So there's something going on. There's there's something going on where Thailand absorbs this type of foreign influence, but it somehow still stays fairly racially homogenous. So I don't I don't know how that works. I'm, you know, I've said before in the show, I'm not really an expert on culture, but there are and of course, there are a few West, you know, white. I'm just going to say white, you know, there's a few white Thai people like a handful. Right, right. but there's no community of of people like that. but there are these, I guess there are these foreign communities. So, you know, to me, it's fascinating that there are so many Russians in Phuket now.

Ed 00:07:38 I mean, obviously, it's not only Russians. I'm sure there's Ukrainians, but also other Eastern Europeans. And, you know, the the whole region is pretty unstable. But, I think it's fascinating that, the Thai people, because they're so open to tourists. They have to adapt to these types of trends. You know, there might be a period of time where like, who knows, ten years ago, maybe it was Swedish people, you know, so there's just tons there's tons of Swedes. And so Thai people have to adapt, maybe learn a little bit of Swedish. And the hotel staff have learned Swedish and now it's it's Russian or Ukrainian or at least Russian language speakers. And so now. So now Thai people have to figure out how to adapt to that.

Greg 00:08:18 But I doubt there was any previous headlines of like Swedish invasion unless it was ABBA, you know. But.

Ed 00:08:24 Well, I don't know, maybe there was. I mean, no, this seems unique. I mean, I think the war is a unique thing.

Ed 00:08:28 And I saw I want to give some credit to this article in The Sun or I'm sorry, not the sun in this, e-paper called The Star. And I don't know anything about it. It just has a Malaysian URL, so it must be like a Malaysian paper. I don't think about it. Right. but it's, you know, the article just came out a few days ago and it's called a Russian invasion of Puckett. And, this is kind of what sparked the show and how and it basically in the article it says the people have been joking that Puckett is turning. Their people are starting to call Puckett Little Moscow. and the story, which will include the link to the story, just to give full credit. it does a good job of going through pros and cons. you know, one one pro is just that, obviously, Thai people want tourism and they want, you know, even long staying tourists means more income. So right now, the economy in Phuket is exploding. There's just this massive influx of of, rubles, I guess.

Ed 00:09:27 and so on the one hand. So this is just great for business. Okay. So let's we'll go back and forth. Good and bad. but, the flip side of that means that, purchase and rental prices have apparently just skyrocketed. So if you want to buy a condo in Phuket now, you're going to be paying maybe double what it was three years ago or two years ago. And apparently that has put pressure on the rental market. So it's just there's just high demand now and it's just packed. so yeah, if you if you know, so financially it's going to cost you more to, to to to live there for sure.

Greg 00:10:09 Yeah. And you mentioned of the ruble just gave me a, interesting idea for the title of this episode. How about ruble in the jungle?

Ed 00:10:19 That's pretty, that's pretty, that's pretty funny, actually. you.

Greg 00:10:23 Know, esoteric one, one angle that I'm interested in looking at this from is that is that Thai people are known as being sort of chilled and laid back.

Greg 00:10:31 Nickname is a land of smiles, while Russians are sort of known as being stoic and almost grim sometimes.

Ed 00:10:39 That's pretty funny. Yeah, it is true. The image, although we're generalizing about like millions and millions of people. But here. Right, the the image of Russians or even just Eastern Europeans, this is kind of an American cliche. We think we think of them as kind of serious and grim. I think it's. It's like a leftover of the Cold War. You know, Eastern Europeans are grim and serious.

Greg 00:11:00 Maybe, maybe, maybe. Except Yakov Smirnoff, he was the he was the one great Russian comedian. But I think, you know, when you see, you know, there's Russian gangsters are tough. And. That's right. No, just they've got a reputation as being badasses for sure.

Ed 00:11:14 Yeah. That. Yeah. You're right. And these are we're dealing with cliches here. We're dealing with stereotypes. But but you're right. Like the the stereotypical type person is very different from the stereotypical rush.

Ed 00:11:25 And that is totally true.

Greg 00:11:27 Right. And of course we know dickhead type people. And of course we know lovely, warm, friendly, funny Russian people too. So of course, an oversimplification.

Ed 00:11:35 This is actually very interesting. You know, I didn't I didn't know how this conversation was going to go, but this is actually a totally interesting angle. I wonder if and of course, like, okay, this is generalizations, but I wonder if there are just certain types of people. I never thought about this before from a Thai person's perspective, for example, do Thai people just get along with Irish people because Irish people are friendly? Or are there I wonder, I wonder if if if I wonder if Thai people think of Russians as serious people. I have no idea. Because I think.

Greg 00:12:07 This is I.

Ed 00:12:08 Think I think it's a little bit of a American or Canadian cliche that we or I'm not sure, I don't know, I really don't know. But you're right in a way. In a way.

Ed 00:12:17 Russians and Thai people, I mean, it's funny talking like this, but they do seem to be quite different.

Greg 00:12:24 But I remember I used to work with the Russian guy and he was, until you got to know him, you thought he didn't like you because you look at a talk with you and he'd be like, yes, yes, yes, okay. And he's very serious. You'd say a joke and he'd look at you right in your eyes and he'd be like, that's funny, you know? But then once you get to know him, he was so funny. But it's just. And I guess Russians are.

Ed 00:12:46 Russians are also. They do have a reputation of being kind of fatalistic and almost pessimistic, whereas Thai people are just cheery, you know, they're like puppy. They have like that puppy personality. They're kind of just warm and cheerful all the time. Big personality since we're generalizing.

Greg 00:13:06 Yeah. And of course, I mean, we should have started the show off with this, but neither you or I or social scientists or have any formal training.

Ed 00:13:12 Actually, I'm supposed to be. I actually am supposed to be a social scientist, to be honest. But I do. Politics. Yeah, I don't do I don't do culture. So this is pure speculation. I want to I want to get I want to get back to positive or negative effects on Phuket. So I mentioned like crowded housing market, but apparently, they okay because there's so many Russians there now who need services in Russia. And now you have Russians, more Russians who are illegally working, providing services for all the Russians. So, you know, you have Russians setting up travel agencies or even, even an article I read said that there was even a massage shop, as if there's not enough massage shops. But some some Russians opened a massage shop so the the clientele could talk to the workers there or something, I don't know. and, you know, the Thailand has a huge, not basically a huge legal red line in terms of jobs. You're allowed to work or not work as a foreigner.

Ed 00:14:12 Sure, sure. So apparently there's been a crackdown and and and kind of conflict in Phuket over this.

Greg 00:14:19 Now it's interesting because we're, we're we're obviously using Russian here because there's all these all all these headlines are talking about the invasion and blah blah, blah, and it's in the news. But you could probably substitute any nationality. And I think when, when any big disruption of the norm happens in Thailand, it does get to a point where the authorities sort of have to step in and do something. And that can be, you know, the the opening hours and people getting too rowdy on Sukhumvit or the bars or Sure. The bars down. that could be, you know, alcohol on trains. And there was that terrible incident with that one train worker who got drunk and did something terrible. So they they banned all the alcohol on the trains. you know, so something.

Ed 00:15:04 Yeah.

Greg 00:15:04 I don't know enough wave that it causes a snapback, a backlash kind of thing.

Ed 00:15:09 Yeah. So I think right now the I think book is kind of just in a state of shock, with, with the number of Russians down there and, I, I read something else interesting in the article.

Ed 00:15:21 You know, this problem, which we've, we've, we've, we have mentioned before. as a, as a downside of foreign investment. So you have all this, Russian money coming in to bucket and some of it is going into businesses and things like that. And so it seems like that would help, the local economy. But the article mentioned that a lot of the money is going back out of Thailand. You know, where, you know, it's kind of like it can do with how the how the business is structured. So some Chinese investors come in, they start a company with some Thai partners, but actually it's somewhat of a sham. And so all the money is leaving Thailand. Leaving Thailand anyway.

Greg 00:16:07 Yeah, sure. That happens a lot too. That happened with the $0 tours from China that we saw a few years ago. All these tourists were being brought in with Chinese tour companies at cost and basically not spending any money in Thailand. And again, it became such a problem that the authorities stepped in and had to do something right.

Greg 00:16:24 So I am really wondering what the breaking point is. Like you said, the the property values are going up, the rents are going up. I actually was talking to a friend of a friend of mine who lives in the United States, and he is going to be moving to Thailand in a couple of years with his family, which is great, but and he was sort of like, well, maybe we'll go to Phuket, maybe we'll go somewhere else. So I was talking to him and I said, what about Puckett? And he goes, actually, no, we've decided against it because there's there's just too many Russians down there. Now. He's got nothing against Russians. Right. you know, he's a very cool dude. He loves everyone. But that was a factor.

Ed 00:17:01 Yeah. I mean, I feel bad for Thai people. You know, Thai people, spend so much time learning English, you know, and they'll say they they go into the hotel business or tourism business, and then 1 million Russians show up, like, you know, who don't speak English or have poor or have poor English.

Ed 00:17:19 so I think Puckett is just going through a transition. you know, to me it doesn't bother me whatsoever if there's just, you know, areas. I know that, a buddy of mine who lives in Rayong, his neighborhood is super Swedish. He was telling me when I, when I went to visit him, he was pointing cross street, like Swedish guy, Swedish guy. And then we went to a Swedish restaurant. So there are these little pockets, like little bubbles, as you said. So. Okay. If, if book becomes a Russian novel, so, so be it.

Greg 00:17:51 Well, I've never had Russian food. I'd like to try it. So, I mean, I have potatoes, I've had vodka.

Ed 00:17:57 Potatoes, potatoes and vodka. That's it. And and vodka is potatoes. That's it. It's all potatoes.

Greg 00:18:04 I guess so, potatoes all the way down.

Ed 00:18:07 That's great.

Greg 00:18:09 You know, another interesting thing is that I was doing some research just before the show on this, and I looked up about I tried to find a lot of stats about, like, you know, immigration to Thailand and long term expats in Thailand and things like that.

Greg 00:18:22 And surprisingly, most of it just dealt with neighboring countries, you know, like a lot of of course, a lot of Burmese are here now. So very little of it mentioned anything about European or Western expats. There was a couple of mentions of, of Russians, and how they were sort of upsetting the applecart in the ways we mentioned rising property prices and things like that, but I couldn't really find anything specific or academic on it. But I did notice this one line from something I read, and this was from the Thailand Migration report from 2024, and it said the year 2023 marked a demographic turning point in Thailand, where the population aged 20 to 24 years, representing those entering the workforce, was lower than the number of individuals aged 60 to 64 leaving the workforce. Now, that might not be an obvious correlation there, but that does mean that there's a lot less young Thai people going into the tourism business, going into these jobs that support the economy. So maybe they're going to have to look towards, you know, outside labor or something like that.

Ed 00:19:27 I'm not sure. Yeah, it could be. I mean, talent is one of many countries in Asia that are going through this, you know, demographic crisis. China is one of them. Japan is one of them. The birth the birth rates are low. There's just not enough young people. yeah. I'm curious how that's affecting the tourism industry. I don't know, I my impression and like I said, I'll include the link to this article, is that, Puckett is struggling to deal with all these Russians. and it's a little bit of one of those, be careful what you wish for things, because as we've talked about before, the tourism authority is all about growth, growth, growth like like we we will just accept everyone who wants to come. and now it's, you know, a million Russians have shown up in the last year. So now Puckett is just just trying to figure out what to do.

Greg 00:20:15 Yeah, well, it's gonna be interesting to watch. and again, as, as as outsiders ourselves, we kind of might have a limited, one sided view of this thing, but, the stats speak for themselves.

Greg 00:20:27 The the Puckett is Thailand's richest province. It's it's this massive, massive economic cornerstone to Thailand's economy, for sure. And, you know, so it's interesting that.

Ed 00:20:37 I was just thinking maybe it helps that Puckett itself is more multicultural. You know, I didn't I should have thought of this earlier when we were talking about it, because I don't think Thai people in general have a multicultural identity. But Puckett, we've talked before about Puckett. Puckett has a just fascinating history of Portuguese and Chinese immigrants. And like it. It's a little bit of a weird zone, so maybe that makes it easier for them to absorb.

Greg 00:21:06 impressions. You're right, you're right, I it's eclectic.

Ed 00:21:09 Puckett has always been eclectic.

Greg 00:21:12 You're right, you're right. And I was just there a few months ago, and it is very multicultural. So I bet that if there was suddenly like a Russian explosion in like Konkan.

Ed 00:21:22 Oh yeah.

Greg 00:21:22 That that probably wouldn't go down as smoothly. Yeah. Yeah. You know.

Ed 00:21:27 Interesting.

Greg 00:21:28 yeah, that is an interesting insight. Well, anyway, we're keeping an eye on it. And again, nothing against Russians or anything like that, but there are a lot of new stories out there that have the headline something, something invasion of Russia.

Ed 00:21:39 Yes. Yeah. We are undergoing a, a a different type of Russian invasion.

Greg 00:21:44 Yeah. So it'll be interesting to see what happens there. And, I just hope that, everyone can be welcome and, and sort of find their natural level and exist peacefully. But again, once, something comes in that disrupts the status quo, usually something is done to get things back to where they used to be. So for sure, I guess.

Speaker 5 00:22:06 For sure.

Greg 00:22:07 All right, let's do something we call Love Lowther live with, where one of us speaks a particular aspect of living in Bangkok, which we discussed to decide if it's something we love about living here, loathe about living here, or have come to accept as something that we just have to learn to live with no matter how we feel about it.

Greg 00:22:21 This weekend, it's your turn. What do you got?

Ed 00:22:24 Got a kind of specific thing here. Now, in my opinion, I, Thai people are not big huggers. but I feel that there is a tendency, I feel older Thai people, older men, they sometimes reach out and kind of touch your arm or put their hand on you while they're talking to you. It's odd because in my opinion, I don't think Thai people are like super touchy feely. But I do think there's this tendency which is a little bit more back home, like with people you don't know. I don't, I don't think if I was talking to an older guy back home who I didn't know, I don't think you would reach out and put his hand in my arm, but I, I think this is a Thai thing. So, number one, do you agree that this is a Thai thing? And number two, love loathe to live with. Does it bug you?

Greg 00:23:14 Yeah.

Greg 00:23:15 It's funny because just this just happened the other day. I'm trying to remember where it was. It was. I think it was. I think it was at at prize wedding, actually. Oh. Where like I was.

Ed 00:23:23 So it is so it is a thing. I'm telling you it is a thing.

Greg 00:23:25 It's totally a thing. And it's older. Man. He was talking to me and and he was very friendly. And he put his arm, he put his hand on my arm and kept it there.

Ed 00:23:36 Right.

Greg 00:23:36 Yeah. That's a minute.

Ed 00:23:38 That's it. That's right. And it's, it's it's obviously not it. This is just a very pleasant kind of affectionate thing. But again, I don't think it would happen back home. I don't think so.

Greg 00:23:51 No, that would be like a personal space thing. I don't I don't love it, but I don't loathe it. I, I live with it, but it doesn't. It doesn't bother me or offend me in the in the slightest.

Ed 00:24:02 Yeah, I think I'm the same way. This is one of those things that I kind of want to love it, because it's just. It is just a little affectionate thing. You know what I mean? It's kind of cute, right? So I, I kind of want to love it, but then, I don't know, maybe because I didn't grow up with it. It's just it's just a little bit weird.

Greg 00:24:24 Yeah. Yeah.

Ed 00:24:25 It's just it's foreign to me.

Greg 00:24:27 It's like when you have a little baby and the ties waitress comes over and picks your baby up and walks away with it to show her friends. You're like,

Ed 00:24:36 Excuse me.

Greg 00:24:37 Right. Yeah. So I'm gonna live with on that. Don't I don't mind it, but it is. You do notice it.

Ed 00:24:43 All right I agree dual live with. All right a final thanks to our patrons who support the show. Patrons get a ton of cool perks and the warm fuzzy feeling knowing that they're helping in our never ending quest for cool content.

Ed 00:24:56 Find out more by clicking support on our website and connect with us online. Where Bangkok podcasts on social media Bangkok podcast.com on the web or simply Bangkok Podcast at gmail.com. We love hearing from our listeners and always reply to our messages.

Greg 00:25:14 That's right. Also listen to each episode on YouTube. Send us a voicemail. Like I said through our website will feature it on the show. Hit me up on blue Sky at BC. Greg. Thanks for listening everyone. Drink lots of water. It's getting hot out there. We got a repeat show next week, but we'll see you back here for a brand new show in two weeks for sure.