Wats & Working Girls: How Thailand Balances Buddhism and Red Lights [S7.E42]

Greg 00:00:05 On this episode, we start a series called The Land of Contradictions, where we discuss some of the cultural mysteries we're still trying to figure out.

Ed 00:00:12 So if you've ever wondered how Thailand can be well known for both pious Buddhists and raucous red light districts, you'll love this episode of the Bangkok Podcast.

Greg 00:00:36 Sawat dee krap, and welcome to the Bangkok Podcast. My name is Greg Jorgensen, a Canadian who came to Thailand in 2001 for the cheap dental care. Because my planned diet of 100% pineapple 100% of the time was going to be murder on the old enamel.

Ed 00:00:50 Yeah, and I met Knuth, an American who came to Thailand on a one year teaching contract 24 years ago, fell in love with the realization that after I did something rude, I could just say my period and all would be forgiven, so I never left.

Greg 00:01:04 I played that dumb foreigner card, gets all kinds of scrapes.

Ed 00:01:08 It's kind of cool when you make a mistake. You can still say, in my opinion, Thai people will accept it.

Ed 00:01:15 All right, I want to give a big thanks to all of our patrons who support the show. Patrons get every episode a day early behind the scenes photos of our interviews, a heads up to send questions to upcoming guests, and access to our discord server to chat with me, Greg, and other listeners around the world. But best of all, patrons also get an unscripted, uncensored bonus episode every week where we riff on current events and Bangkok topics on this week's bonus show. We chatted about Greg's newfound hobby of baking and whether Thailand's climate affects recipes. My pride is seeing so many young Thais fascinated by the US election, despite it being a bit of a drama show. some of the stark differences between Lumpini and Ben Park, and how much Greg should trust his dentist when they say he needs work done, especially considering a few instances of unnecessary upselling in the past. Yeah. To learn how to become a patron and get all this good stuff, plus full access to over 700 bonus and regular back episodes, click the support button at the top of our website.

Greg 00:02:28 Right. And as always, if you have a comment to show idea or just want to say hi, head to Bangkok podcast.com and click the microphone button on the bottom right to leave us a voicemail, and we'll play it on the show. All right. On this episode, we wanted to rap about a topic that most visitors to Thailand have likely pondered, and one which certainly confused me in my early days. And that is how a culture known for pious Buddhists and conservative values can be so accepting of the oldest profession, which is seen by many as immoral. Now, indeed, this episode is the first in a series that we are going to call Land of Contradictions. And the first thing we're going to start by saying is that the issue as a contradiction, is very Western way to look at it. And we certainly don't want to act all high and mighty about it, because like we said before, many times, our cultures certainly don't have all the answers. Far from it. But the fact is, Thailand is known worldwide for both its monks and temples and its red light districts.

Greg 00:03:21 But before we get started, we of course have to say that we are not experts here and we are just shooting the shit around. An interesting topic, but the fact is, many foreigners find this issue quite the dichotomy, and it's one that's been well covered in Western media over the years. And I want to start off by saying I remember very distinctly the first time this was made clear to me I had been in the country just and I've been in the city actually for, for just a few months. And I was riding the Skytrain home late one night, passed in an area which is a big red light district, and I saw a bunch of working girls praying outside in front of a temple, a shrine and it blew my mind. I was not prepared to see these two. What? I thought conflicting sides of the universe come together so closely. So that was my first wow moment.

Ed 00:04:08 Yeah. No, I, I love this issue in topic because I do think superficially, superficially, or upon first impression, it doesn't seem to make sense.

Ed 00:04:18 Thailand is known for having thousands and thousands of temples. I googled it and the estimate is over 40,000 temples and is certainly in for tourists and in tourist books like the image of a Golden Temple and maybe some, you know, you know, Thai monks in their orange robes. This is an image of Thailand. But then, you know, you turn the page and the next image is a red light district and bar girls sitting out in front of a bar, or possibly go, go for possibly go go dancers. These are these are two things that Thailand is definitely known for, for better or worse. We're just dealing with with facts. and so it does on the surface just seem like it doesn't make sense. And so certainly we're we're just guessing here. And you've actually did a little bit of googling. To your credit, I'm just going to completely wing it. I've got some theories, you know, just just Ed's theories of how these things might actually fit together, where I think in most Western countries there wouldn't be any way to make it fit together.

Ed 00:05:21 You know, to me, to to me, back home, to me, back home. It would be a contradiction. But I think I think here it's not necessarily a contradiction. And, you know, we're going to do our best to, to, to explain it.

Greg 00:05:32 Yeah. And it's something that, maybe we should have like a theologian on to discuss one time. That's right. I'm especially interested in the contradiction of how Western Judeo-Christian values interpret this thing versus Asian values. And, you know, I mean, where I grew up and it's not a barometer for everyone, of course, but where I grew up, you know, prostitution, bad people who associate with prostitution. Bad. Correct. Johns bad. Prostitutes bad. It's just a black and white. It's just.

Ed 00:06:00 Wrong. Yeah, it's just wrong. Yeah, sure. So Greg's done a little bit of research. He's got some a little bit of formal possible answers which which I think are cool. But let me just throw out a couple theories, couple thoughts I have.

Ed 00:06:13 And I'm curious what you think about this. You know, I grew up Catholic. and, when I was young, I got a lot of, hellfire or. I mean, I was painted a very scary picture of hell. and, and I think Catholics aren't even the worst about that. I think some other, some other Christian and some might even be worse. And, my impression of living in Thailand over the years and knowing something in quotes about Buddhism is that for some reason, just the, the, the punishment that it's just it's just not so direct and so confrontational like that. You know, the punishment for serious sins in Western religion is you're going to burn in hell forever. Like there's nothing worse than that. Like that's that's it. Like you can't it's like hellfire. Whereas, you know, in Buddhism and other Asian religions is it means you're going to have bad karma. And bad karma means bad karma means you might be reborn as a lower creature, which might lead to more suffering in the future.

Ed 00:07:21 It means you're going to be stuck in this cycle of samsara for longer. And so it's not good. You know, Buddhism condemns sexual impropriety, but I just feel that something I don't know if it's about, you know, we, you know, this is something for a prop handed. Of course. I'm not sure it's necessarily what's written in the books or if it's just the way Buddhist culture has evolved over time, it just seems that it's just less harsh in terms of the punishment. It's just less direct. Like there's just like in general. Again, just winging this, like Thai people just don't seem to be in fear of hellfire, like, right? Am I wrong? Am I wrong about this? I don't.

Greg 00:08:10 Think so. And yeah, I mean, I can just I remember myself, you know, stealing chocolate bars when I was a kid and. Right. People telling me like this, you're going to hell. Stealing is in the Bible and you're going to hell. That's a lot more dissuasive than that's bad karma, you know what I mean?

Ed 00:08:26 I think so again, I'm curious what listeners think, and especially Thai people out there.

Ed 00:08:31 You know, bad karma is still bad. And there are layers of hell in Buddhism. I just feel like in trying to rectify what we're talking about, and this relates a little bit to some of your more academic quotes, that we're going to get to in a second. I think that there's a little bit more of a weighing of the pros and cons. So you might be doing an act that is technically sinful, which is going to maybe build up some bad karma, but then maybe there's some good effects to this act, or maybe there's a good reason why you're doing it. So there's I feel like there's a little bit of more of weighing. It's not so black and white as to what's good and bad.

Greg 00:09:10 Let me ask you this. Comparing the two, the twos, the two religious, sort of mindsets, Western and eastern. Does Buddhism have a more personal responsibility focused in Western culture? Sort of like, maybe like if you're growing up in a Western culture, like, obviously you have to take responsibility for your own sins, but it's it's more of a like, you're hurting the collective.

Greg 00:09:30 You're hurting the idea of us. But is Buddhism more of like, hey, that's on you, man. That's your burden. Not not going to affect me. I guess it kind of a similar, but it's.

Ed 00:09:41 A good question. I'm not sure. I'm not sure about that. If it's an individual versus group thing. My second theory, my my second theory, has to do which something we've talked about before is about the difference between the different emphasis on shame versus guilt. And, I, you know, I've talked to Thai people about this before, and they definitely have both concepts and they understand the idea of guilt to for sure. but I still think that, in Buddhism and in Thai culture, because they don't have the idea of God, or at least not the same idea of God, that they. I just think that Thailand is more of a shame based culture. And so if things are done in private, they're they just are less worried about it. I'm not saying they're not worried about it.

Ed 00:10:36 I'm not saying I'm not saying in private it's okay to murder people. Like obviously you're like, so just because something's in private doesn't mean you can get away with it in Thailand, but I think that it is more of a shame based culture versus the guilt based culture, which means, you know, I think in a guilt based culture, it doesn't matter where you do something because God can see everything. Right. But but I think in Thailand is I think in Thailand is if if you're discreet about something and if you're doing something in private and, and fewer people can see it or know about it, it just it seems to weigh less on their psyche. So I think this has something to do with it. Now, of course, some bloggers and, and you know, sometimes it's, it is flagrant and public and it's in-your-face kind of thing. But you know, obviously the the business is happening behind closed doors, you know, so, you know, and if you go into a listeners, if you don't realize this, if you go into entertainment venues, goggle bars in Thailand, there's no open there's no open pay for play kind of thing.

Ed 00:11:49 It doesn't work that way. You're you're allegedly paying for just companionship to share a drink. And then you might leave a bar with someone. so it's, you know, what's happening is kind of almost considered like private business, you know, it's right out of sight.

Greg 00:12:06 Out of mind. Right? Yeah, that's exactly right.

Ed 00:12:08 So I guess that's my point. I think this has something to do with it. I think talent is a little bit more out of sight, out of mind. And whereas I think in the West it's, it's just a little bit more irrelevant where you do something. And how many people know about it.

Greg 00:12:25 Well, I don't know. I mean, what we're seeing in the West now also is especially in America, right? Is the is the sort of like the dictating of morality and what's what you can and cannot do in your own house kind of thing. But so I think that.

Ed 00:12:38 That's what I'm saying. I think that, well, at least the, I think the, the Western Stern religious view is that it doesn't matter if you're in the privacy of your own home, it's still wrong.

Ed 00:12:49 Like I think that is. I think that is the traditional Western view, because it all comes down to God and what God is aware of. And God can see everything. But but I think without I think with the AI, without the idea of like an all knowing deity. I just think Buddhism in Thailand has evolved in a different direction, and it's more about not embarrassing people and not embarrassing your family and, you know, and being discreet about right and being. And so discretion, I think, plays a bigger part in Thai culture. Right.

Greg 00:13:20 And of course, we've we've said it before many, many times. Thais are very practical and they're very, very quickly able to weigh to competing ideas against each other like, well, yeah, but you know, and sort of take the middle path, you know, no pun. Well.

Ed 00:13:36 You're right, I think it's less black and white. yeah. like even about morality. So I've got some more. I've got some more concepts. But, why don't you, Why don't you, get a little bit into your.

Ed 00:13:48 Your research here?

Greg 00:13:49 Well, first of all, on a complete tangent, when you just said earlier about how you're not actually leaving the bar, paying for a girl, you actually pay for the drink, and then, you know, the girl comes with you. It reminds me of one of the greatest scams I've ever heard of. There's this detective agency, I think, somewhere in the States, and you call them and say, yeah, I lost. I lost my bag of weed, and, they'll come to your house and find it for you for a fee, you know?

Ed 00:14:13 No. Exactly. Yeah. Brilliant. Brilliant. Yeah. Yeah. No, exactly. Well, there's a lot of things like that in, in, in, in Thailand. And that's kind of what I'm saying. Like it's very kind of indirect and like if you're being very strict there is a certain thing going on. But, but that thing is not being done directly and certainly not out in the open.

Ed 00:14:33 Right.

Greg 00:14:33 And it is just not worth the hassle of making a big fuss about it, because who knows what that's what what that'll lead to.

Ed 00:14:39 Right?

Greg 00:14:39 Right. so I was googling around a bit and I found a couple of papers and I didn't have time to go through them all in great detail, but but if you're interested, listeners, there's some very interesting, sort of academic papers written about this one, this topic. And, the one that I was reading was called, Trading Sex for Karma in Thailand and analysis of the reciprocal relationship between Buddhist Monastics and Thai prostitutes by Amy Pascal. Damn, that's a mouthful. Yeah. And, this, this this quote here, I'll read it in full. It's just a it's just a short, short paragraph. But tell me what you think about this ad. This says Buddhist views towards prostitution have changed over time. There are several centuries old Buddhist narratives that depict prostitutes or courtesans as strong, courageous, powerful women during pre-modern times. Then prostitutes seem to be viewed more positively than they are today, and some even seem to have been highly revered.

Greg 00:15:28 Of course, in modern times, prostitutes are not held in such high regard. Rather, they are viewed as one of the lowest groups on the social ladder. They are not offered much respect, and they certainly are not celebrated in Buddhist philosophy and an ideology, as they sometimes were during pre-modern times.

Ed 00:15:42 So. Let me just interject here. So in in some of the research I've seen, this is kind of my point, I think. I think over time Buddhism has taken different views toward, towards it. and so, of course, you know, we have a modern view and a modern opinion, but I think the religion as a whole has been a little bit more ambiguous throughout the years. So that might be that might be one of the reasons that might be one of the reasons why today it's not so black and white, because I think it doesn't have it doesn't have like thousands of years of condemnation.

Greg 00:16:15 Right, right, right. And this also relates back to the question that we did in trivial tie in our bonus episode, where you asked me what the Thai word for one of the Thai words for a lady of the night is.

Greg 00:16:26 And it's so funny. Which, comes from a Thai word nakhon, which means, beautiful woman of the city. That's right. Yeah. The word for that is comes from a beautiful woman.

Ed 00:16:38 Yeah. It's not. Yeah. The word for it is not harsh or like. Right. You know, pejorative. It's really not a harsher pejorative. So actually the second quote I like. So why don't you do your second quote. Okay. Okay.

Greg 00:16:51 So again from this, trading sex requirement in Thailand, and it's the reciprocal relationship between Buddhist monastics and Thai prostitutes by Pascal. the second quote says in conducting her study, which, which I guess is another researcher interviewed senior monks and UN ordained monks, otherwise known as Makai, at the three main meditation monasteries in Chiang Mai, which is located in the northern region of Thailand. An important finding by music was that the monks believed that the karmic outcome depended on the prostitutes intention in prostituting herself. Thus, it seems that a prostitutes simple performance of acts of merit is not enough to counteract her negative karma.

Greg 00:17:27 Rather, she must only be working as a prostitute because of her good intentions, such as helping to support her poor and struggling family.

Ed 00:17:35 That's interesting Dude, I think this is spot on. I mean, I, you know, again, I'm just guessing about this stuff, so I but but to me, this makes sense. I just feel that the way Thai people evaluate morality is a little bit more complex. And it's not so much based on it's not so much based on what you did. It's based more on why did you do it. And so they still might condemn the act. So they might say, okay, this act is wrong. You really should not be doing this, but they're just going to be less harsh about it and more look the other way ish if they know, right? Right. If they know you're doing this, let's say to support your kids or support your family. And over the years, you know, I lived on Sukhumvit for five years. And in the early years, like in a lot of bars on Sukhumvit, there's just working girls hanging out there all the time, and I call it my I call it a grad student mode.

Ed 00:18:36 Even though I wasn't a grad student, I wasn't a grad student, but I was so fascinated that I used to chat with these girls all the time. And I was just, you know, you know, this is something I never encountered in this state. So I would I would ask them all kinds of questions about their life and what's up. And, and I was, you know, trying to be polite, but I was so very curious about, like, why, you know, why are you doing this? And I mean, basically 100% of the time, I mean, let's say 99, it's because they have a child they're trying to support or parents or family they want to send money to. I mean, it's exactly it's almost 100% of the time. Yeah.

Greg 00:19:12 Now, I probably at the head of the show, you heard my little my ad for my little walking tours here, and I used to have one that walked through the nada area, which is not up anymore because Nanna changed so much over Covid.

Greg 00:19:22 I took it down because it was all out of date and I haven't done it yet. But in that, walking tour, I do remember writing something again, which I got from another paper written by a quite well known feminist author. I can't remember her name now, but the basic takeaway was, and I remember writing this and doing the voiceovers very clearly, I said, looking at this through a western lens of black and white is the wrong way to do it. You're just you're just starting off on the wrong foot, because most of the time, I think it's fair to say these women know what they're doing. They know what's going on. Right? You know, they go and they do this unpleasant thing, but they can put their kid through school. They can pay off the mortgage on their parents house. They can buy, send their kid to a better school. Does that make them a bad person? Does that mean they're not worthy of, of, you know, of of respect and love? You know.

Ed 00:20:10 So I think I think something like that is going on where. Yeah, it's it's the intention and the reason why they're doing it matters more. You know, I think people in the West would be more sympathetic about that, but they would still be harsher and more like condemn it more. Whereas I think it's just the way that culture works out or the way whether it's tackled or a Buddhist culture. I'm not exactly sure. I think that for them that the karmic impact is a little bit more gray. You know, it's like it's not as clear.

Greg 00:20:45 And it takes a while to get used to like it took me years to sort of not see this as, like.

Ed 00:20:51 My head around it. Yeah.

Greg 00:20:52 Yeah, yeah. Like not see the red light district is like, oh, you better not go in that place because it's like it's skeezy and gross and bad. Right, right. You know, and there's, there's, you know, it's not all rainbows and unicorns, but it's, it's it took me a while to, to to ease into that way of thinking of things.

Ed 00:21:08 Well, my last theory again, I'm just I'm just just winging this. But I'm curious what you think about this. It. You know, this is something that has come up in a couple classes of mine. You know, I you know, the bottom line is sex is just weird. It's weird. And, socially, like socially, how you talk about it and deal with it and evaluate it, I think is very cultural. In other words, certain things, you know are just in your genes and it really doesn't depend on culture. But then other things, I think you could bop around to different cultures and find out, like, wow, like there's a lot of variety here. And I just think like attitudes towards sexuality, I just think are very, very cultural. And I think that's for some reason in the West, I think, you know, the nature of Western religion. It's just that sex itself, it's sanctified, like sex is kind of a holy thing. Or even if you're not religious, it just has like serious moral implications.

Ed 00:22:11 It's just it's just like even minor sexual things, like, they matter so much.

Greg 00:22:17 It's built up so much when you're growing up. Yeah.

Ed 00:22:19 You know, I was talking I was talking to my students about this, and it was just funny, like, I was, I was I was remembering stories from junior high, and I was telling them stuff. And it's, you know, it's kind of silly, but I just remember it's like, you know, you you find out that that like, you know, like like Joe kissed Susie on the lips, you know, it's just like it's like, oh my God, you know? And then and then it's like, I remember this other story where it's like the story was going around that like a guy had touched another woman's breasts, and it's just like, Holy crap. I mean, this is like earth shattering news.

Greg 00:22:52 Like, dude, I remember the year end grade six dance. I had a crush on this girl named Patricia, and band danced with her and he put his hands on her hips.

Greg 00:23:00 Jesus do like that was all people talking about.

Ed 00:23:03 Okay, that was some of this. Some of this obviously is just human. You know, when you're young, when you're young and and in this case, straight, it's like, I'm not saying these things are not big deals, like some of it is just human thing going on here, like, you know, biology. Yeah. Some of it is that. But I don't know, man. I just think in the West it's just like it's just in, in Western religion, it's just it's just these very natural things are turned into like things of epic importance. God is watching and paying attention and looking at where you put which body part. And it really matters. Like it matters like to your fate. It matters like whether you're going to burn in hell or not. It's just it's just so, you know, it's just so significant. And then when I, you know, when I talk to Thai people, it's like they just have this attitude towards sex that it's just natural.

Ed 00:23:54 Well, it.

Greg 00:23:55 It's like.

Ed 00:23:55 It's I'm not I'm not saying they're more sexual. They're more pro sex, more anti-sex. I'm not saying that at all. I'm just saying that they just don't give it so much weight and meaning. Like, that's what I'm saying. It's just it's not meaning less. It's not doesn't mean nothing. But I just think they they're just attitude is very Thai. It's just they're just like, yeah, yeah, people have sex.

Greg 00:24:21 Well I agree mostly. But I mean we in in Western countries we don't have the police wandering around known makeout sessions areas on Valentine's Day, watching for couples holding hands a bit too tightly, you know?

Ed 00:24:34 Okay, well, I mean, okay, that things are changed. I mean, but that's a pretty I mean, yeah, but that whole Valentine's Day crackdown thing is a pretty it's pretty narrow thing. I mean, they are they are, they are, they are worried about teenage pregnancy and things like that. I just think in general it's it's just that Thai people's attitude towards sexuality is just it's a little bit more chill, a little bit more, hey, this is natural.

Ed 00:24:56 Just don't do anything stupid. You know, it reminded me, the way, you know, kind of the way I think of things here. It reminded me of, a buddy of mine. Who? A Swedish guy, you know, and, you know, in general, I don't know if it's true, but, like, the, you know, the image of Sweden is they're pretty liberal and about sexuality and and I remember my Swedish, but he told me that, when he was in high school and he would have dinner at his girlfriend's house. So dinner at his girlfriend's house. They, Like, after dinner, they would go up into her bedroom, like, in her house and enjoy themselves. And I was like, dude, I'm like, you know, as an American kid, I'm like, wait, what?

Greg 00:25:40 I could barely even enjoy myself in my bedroom, right?

Ed 00:25:43 You know, like, to me, this was incomprehensible, right. And then and, you know, and then he said, well, her parent's like, realized we were going to do it one way or the other.

Ed 00:25:53 It's either we're going to do it like in the back seat of a car or in like the woods of a park. So they were like, she had.

Greg 00:25:58 Those parents, the cool parents.

Ed 00:26:00 Yeah, yeah. You know, and again, I don't want to generalize about Sweden and actually, I don't think actually I don't think Thai people would be that liberal. I don't think so. But, but but my point is, I don't know, man. I just think that there's something about, again, I'm not sure if it's Thai culture, Buddhist culture. It's just, they I don't think they think about sexuality as as this holy thing. It's not like sanctified. It doesn't have. It doesn't have cosmic significance. Like what? Like what you do with whoever you do it with. It doesn't have cosmic implications. You know what I mean? I don't know, that's just that's just my final take. Like, I think it's just to me, it's, you know, the tie attitude is it's just it's a little bit more healthy that this is a natural thing, you know, with pros and cons.

Ed 00:26:48 And you should be careful about this and careful about that. But it's not a cosmic thing.

Greg 00:26:54 Right? I think it's a good way to end it. Yeah. yeah. Interesting discussion. Again, we don't have all the answers, but, it again, it took me a while to go from what the hell to. Right. Okay, okay, okay.

Ed 00:27:06 So lots and working girls, they they can go together.

Greg 00:27:10 Yeah, they can, they can. And I'm glad they do. Interesting discussion man. Good one. All right, let's do some love, loathe or live with where one of us picks a particular aspect of living in Bangkok, which we then discuss to decide if it's something we love about living here, loathe about living here, or I've come to accept as something that we just have to learn to live with no matter how we feel about it. And this week, I got something for you.

Ed 00:27:31 Okay. Hit me.

Greg 00:27:33 Now. You're, You're you're a sometime guy. You like sometime?

Ed 00:27:36 I do, like sometime, you know, now I'm vegetarian, which complicates things.

Ed 00:27:40 I'm trying to avoid fish sauce and shrimp and stuff, but in general, I like some of them.

Greg 00:27:44 Okay, okay. Well, I had, sometime dish the other night, and it's not the first time I've had it, but it always surprises me that I like it. And that is sometime chicken, which is the salty egg. Yes. What do you think of salty eggs?

Ed 00:28:00 You know, I the simple truth is, I'm not a fan. I well, it's tricky if I make a hard boiled egg and I put, like, my amount of salt on it, I like it. But if for some reason when I try the Thai version, it just doesn't work for me. I'm not sure what's going on there, but, like, I don't know if that makes sense.

Greg 00:28:19 Like, oh, I get it.

Ed 00:28:20 I get like my salty. I put it that way.

Greg 00:28:22 Yeah, yeah. No, I get it. Because it's funny, I, I hate like, you gave me a salted egg to eat.

Greg 00:28:27 I would be like this. Disgusting. I'm not touching it. But put it in sometime and I'll eat it. Oh. So surprised that I like it in sometime.

Ed 00:28:35 Interesting. You know, I'm not. I do like sometime. I'm not. I'm not like, hardcore into it and often it can be too spicy. So that's like the listeners out there like, yeah, go, you know, order sometime. But be careful about the amount of spice that would be like that. I would say that to the I would say that's the number one dish where you better be clear how spicy you want it.

Greg 00:28:55 My peddler. Yeah. Yes.

Ed 00:28:57 Yeah, yeah. That's right. But okay. I got to be honest for like the Thai version of salted egg, it never seems to work for me. I don't know why.

Greg 00:29:05 Yeah, I don't like it, except in sometimes, like.

Ed 00:29:08 Interesting. Interesting. Okay. Alrighty. Our final thanks to our patrons who support the show. Patrons get a ton of cool perks and the warm, fuzzy feeling knowing that they're helping and are never ending.

Ed 00:29:17 Quest for cool content? Find out more by clicking support on our website and connect with us online. Where Bangkok podcast on social media Bangkok podcast. Com on the web or simply Bangkok Podcast at gmail.com. We love hearing from our listeners and always reply to our messages.

Greg 00:29:35 That's right. You can also listen to each episode on YouTube. Send us a voicemail through our website that will feature on the show. Hit me up on threads at BCC. Greg, thank you for listening everyone. Hope you're doing well and we'll see you back here next week for sure. All right, let's do some love, loathe, or live with where one of us picks a particular aspect of living in Bangkok, which we then to discuss, which we discuss to decide if it's something we live about.