What Comes Next: Greg & Ed Try to Predict Bangkok’s Future [S7.E35]

Greg 00:00:00 Hey. Greg here. Did you know that I've created a few walking tours of Bangkok using the GPS on your phone? The routes take you through some of my favorite areas of the city, exploring the fascinating neighborhoods and hidden history that give Bangkok its sweet, sweet mojo. Head to voice maps and search for Bangkok. By phone on this episode and I put our fortune telling hats on to see if we can make some predictions about Bangkok's future.

Ed 00:00:27 So if you're like us and often ponder what the next ten, 20, or 50 years will look like in Bangkok, you'll dig this episode of the Bangkok Podcast.

Greg 00:00:51 Sahwa, the corrupt and welcome to the Bangkok Podcast. My name is Greg Jorgensen, a Canadian who came to Thailand in 2001 because a fortune teller told me I'd find fame and fortune in the City of Angels. But now I realize she probably meant Los Angeles and I missed out on being rich and famous.

Ed 00:01:07 Oops.

Greg 00:01:09 Wrong. City of angels.

Ed 00:01:10 And I met Knuth, an American who came to Thailand on a one year teaching contract 24 years ago, fell in love with crazy drunken tuk tuk rides at dawn.

Ed 00:01:20 And then he never did it again. But I never left anyway.

Greg 00:01:24 Like living on those those glory days. You remember that one time. You remember that one time that tuk tuk ride at dawn.

Ed 00:01:28 We took it really is about. It really is about one time, you know, you got you got to you got to have a crazy drunken to to ride at least once, right?

Greg 00:01:36 Right. You do. Everyone has to do it. I remember that New Year's Eve, we got seven people in a tuk tuk. Not advisable. You know.

Ed 00:01:42 It's a blast. It's a blast. But then you don't really want to do it again. Yeah.

Greg 00:01:47 Thank God I survived.

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Greg 00:03:16 Alrighty then! On this episode, editor and I want to get a little bit hypothetical now. Combined. Ed, you and I have been in Thailand coming up on 50 years now together, which is a little bit crazy. And, we figured that with that much time at least gives us a little bit of street cred and certainly enough for us to start making predictions, or at least educated guesses about the future of our fair city that we call home. So what Ed and I have done is each come up with three questions about the future of Bangkok to discuss, which will ponder, to see if, based on time served, we can come to a halfway intelligent conclusion on what things will look like in ten, 20, 50, 55, 75, 100 years, whatever it may be. So I am not a believer in fortune tellers, but I am a believer in educated guesses based on observance of past events. What do you think of this? Do you think we're we're going to be able to, noodle, noodle our way to the future?

Ed 00:04:14 Well, I believe in fortune telling, man.

Ed 00:04:17 I just believe in. I just believe in, the foundation of it, being, hopefully reason and, like you said, experience. We got some experience, man. So, I like this, exercise, seeing seeing if we can guess the future of Bangkok or Thailand. I like this. This is an interesting challenge.

Greg 00:04:38 It is a challenge. Yeah. And, of course, you know, ten years down the line, someone's going to listen to this and write us an email. Like, you guys are so dumb, you got everything wrong. But you know what? We'll see.

Ed 00:04:47 Well, I'm ready to I'm ready to take that challenge.

Greg 00:04:50 Well, we'll burn that bridge when we come to it, as they say. So what we've done is each of us has come up with three questions that sort of ponder the future of an aspect of Bangkok or Thailand. And, let's discuss. So, Ed, do you mind if I go first here? I'll throw a question your way, and then you'll throw one my way and we'll see where we arrive.

Greg 00:05:06 Sure, sure.

Ed 00:05:07 Hit me man. All right.

Greg 00:05:08 Well, this has been on my mind lately. It rained a lot last night. And I want to ask you. Will Bangkok ever solve its sinking problem? Ooh.

Ed 00:05:19 I actually like this question. it's funny, obviously we've talked about a little bit before, and I've also discussed this with my students. I'm. I'm baffled at how little the Thai government seems to be talking about studying. I mean, maybe they are studying it, but I. Okay, if your question is, are we going to solve this problem? I really I'm pessimistic man. I think the answer is no. I mean, okay, am I predicting that the capital of Thailand is going to have to move? I don't know if I'd go that far, but man, I don't understand it. Did you happen to see that movie called the Don't Look Up?

Greg 00:06:06 Oh, God. Yeah. Those are. Yeah, yeah. We're the solution to the impending meteor disaster was simply don't look up.

Greg 00:06:12 Everyone was like, hey, man, if you don't look up, there's no problem.

Ed 00:06:15 Yeah, no, this is Thailand's. Don't look up. It's like I just I just don't get it. And every time I read about the the facts, you know, essentially the city is sinking and the sea is rising, and it it's just going to be underwater, like I've heard, I've heard, projections that by, by even 2050. So like, like within the next 30 years, like we're probably still we're probably still going to be alive and, and no one's talking about it. And the government's not doing anything. So it's the don't look up problem. So, So, okay, I don't know if the city is actually going to have to move, but but I, I my prediction is disaster or it's some really, really bad situation that they, they come to their senses like way too late. And I predict I predict a literal quagmire. Literally. That's what I predict a quagmire.

Greg 00:07:10 Well, this is an interesting question, because I know that we have listeners who might be listening to this right now who are not believers in the sea rising, Bangkok sinking, global warming thing. They don't think it's I think it's they think it's, it's not happening like that. I am a man of science. I tend to believe, you know, 90% of the world's scientists over a couple of very smart friends I have. But I also am not worried about it, and I should be. But it's one of those things. You're one of the.

Ed 00:07:38 Don't look up people. You're one of the don't look up, keep up.

Greg 00:07:40 But I'm like, hey, what are you going to do? What are you gonna do? It's just it's this is the problem with these kind of things is that they happen so slowly. It's really hard. That's true.

Ed 00:07:49 No, that is true.

Greg 00:07:49 To build like a mass movement to counter it.

Ed 00:07:53 No, this should be. This should be like Thailand space program.

Ed 00:07:57 This should be. You know, it's like when when John F Kennedy said, like, we're going to go to the moon in ten years and the whole US government just put all their resources behind it. The Thai government needs to be doing that like this is they should be treating like it's an emergency. I just don't get it. So I'm I'm super pessimistic about this.

Greg 00:08:13 I don't think it's going to be what you said. I think eventually what's going to happen is it's just it's not going to be like tidal waves are going to be washing up against the 30th floor of the building. I think just slowly over the decades, flooding in certain parts of the city will become worse and worse and worse, and they'll become slowly less populated and people will move further north and out around the outskirts. And eventually parts of Bangkok will just be kind of abandoned as parts of Bangkok already seemed to be abandoned now.

Ed 00:08:42 Yeah, maybe. I'm not sure. Yeah, I'm not sure how it's going to play out.

Ed 00:08:46 I think they're going to. They're going to come to their senses pretty late and they're going to. They're going to have to spend even more money than they thought. And. Like, will they be able to fix it? I don't know, maybe, but I'm just going to say no. Like I don't think they're going to I don't think they're going to fix it. I just I just don't know exactly what's going to happen.

Greg 00:09:04 We've talked about it before on the show, but did you ever read that book, The Wind Up Girl by Paulo Baca?

Ed 00:09:10 I never I never actually read it, but I know the book. Yeah, a.

Greg 00:09:12 Great sci fi book that takes place a few hundred years in the future in Bangkok. And if you go to the to the internet and type in the wind up girl concept art, in the book, they have built a massive seawall around the city to protect it from the rising ocean. Okay. And there you go. There's there's some artists who have done some concept art for that story, and there's some really striking images of Bangkok surrounded by a massive sea wall that goes all the way down to the province.

Greg 00:09:39 Really cool.

Ed 00:09:40 Maybe they will do that, but they're going to have to do something. I'm just baffled. Baffled by the whole thing.

Greg 00:09:45 It ain't going to be cheap, whatever the solution is. We're already seeing it in Jakarta, right? Jakarta is moving. Indonesia's building, a brand new capital city in Jakarta, is eventually going to be left to do whatever devices.

Ed 00:09:56 Right? Correct. I mean, many cities are in big trouble.

Greg 00:09:59 It's time to buy up the land around Chiang Mai real quick.

Ed 00:10:02 That's right. All right, man, I got one for you. This is geopolitics. Geopolitics. It's kind of. It's kind of my field, but I figured I'd get Greg's take. Greg's takes. Always interesting.

Greg 00:10:12 Interesting? Yes. Right. Maybe not.

Ed 00:10:15 All right, here we go. Will Thailand continue to remain pragmatically neutral, or will it eventually have to choose a side, the US or China?

Greg 00:10:29 Yeah, that's a good one.

Ed 00:10:30 You know, political, geopolitical. Correct.

Ed 00:10:32 This is like a new thing.

Greg 00:10:33 It's a brand new thing. Yeah. I like the phrase pragmatically neutral because we've heard it on shows many, many times with interviews with historians and and scholars. And that's one thing that Thailand has historically always been is pragmatic, whether it's choosing sides in wars or being diplomatic or right politics or economics.

Ed 00:10:52 They tend absolutely not to choose sides unless they have to.

Greg 00:10:56 Yeah, exactly, exactly. And of course, like everything in my life, I always pressed it through the filter of pop culture. But I don't know if you remember that excellent, excellent TV show Firefly, which takes place far in the future, hundreds of years in the future. I do. And the only two superpowers that have that emerged out of out of Earth in the 20th century were China and and and the United States. And so in the TV show, when they want to curse, they always curse in Mandarin, because that's like one of the two languages that survived in English. So, I think eventually, yeah.

Greg 00:11:27 I don't know how long Thailand is going to be able to play both sides, because obviously China and America are their partners on a lot of things, but they also compete on a lot of things. And geopolitically, I mean, sort of to quote another pop culture icon, Highlander, there can be only one. So I don't know how long Thailand can continue sort of being in the middle of them, because eventually one of them is going to cross a line and the other one's going to say, look, you're either with us or against us. And, yeah, I don't know how long it's gonna last. I don't know, you know.

Ed 00:11:56 If it's actually an interesting question. I mean, it really depends on if there's a serious conflict between between the US and China that forces some kind of choice, right? You know, because because basically, if it's just kind of economic and cultural competition, then Thailand is not forced to make a choice. But if there was an actual like hot war or like a serious conflict.

Greg 00:12:21 Well, like, you know, if China went into Taiwan or if if Russia nukes Ukraine, like, who knows?

Ed 00:12:28 I have an answer to so so do you have an answer? So if they had to choose which which side would they choose?

Greg 00:12:36 Yeah. I am not in a position to to make an answer. So I'm going to make a wild guess that they would probably come down on the side of China just for, for, for, for pragmatic, geographic reasons. It's Rangers right here.

Ed 00:12:52 I mean, I think you're correct in that, in that respect, like culturally and, you know, Chinese ties, you know, more or less run the country. But I don't know, man, like ever since, World War two, like the US and Thailand have been like, I think, I think the US and Thailand are closer than people realize, especially militarily, especially militarily. They got Cobra.

Greg 00:13:15 Gold every year.

Ed 00:13:16 That's right. I mean, I think I think Thailand too chooses the US.

Ed 00:13:21 I think if they had to I mean, like like the question notes, I think they would do whatever they could not to make a choice. Right. I think I think they go us well.

Greg 00:13:33 yeah, that's an interesting one. I guess.

Ed 00:13:35 We just have to wait 50 years to find.

Greg 00:13:36 Out if there's ever a mega geopolitical global tragedy. write us an email. We'll see what happens. all right, let me ask you a question then. and this is coming on from, from from this question, because I was also going to mention something about how China smartly invested in a ton of, of, rail rail lines throughout Asia in the world. So, that leads me to the next question. Do you think Thailand will ever truly have high speed rail?

Ed 00:14:06 okay. I actually was just reading about this, like last week. Some some time. I was curious, so I googled it. And, this is something I'm, I'm, I'm more optimistic on. Like it. There's a whole bunch of stuff that I like about Thailand that I'm pretty pessimistic about, like the political situation I'm pretty pessimistic about, like the sinking.

Ed 00:14:28 But for some reason, Thailand or Bangkok manages, like, public transportation. Well, after I was here five years and I had, like some credit, some credibility. Right? Or thought I knew something about talent. If you if you if you had showed me then the current map of the MRT in BTS, I would say, no way is that going to happen.

Greg 00:14:56 Yeah, it's pretty expensive.

Ed 00:14:58 I would I would have said 0.0 that Thailand gets its shit together and, and has like and has an extensive network like like this, like there's something about public transportation that Thailand manages to get shit done. And I'm not sure why that is. so I think we're going to have high speed rail. It's amazing that Thailand's going to have high speed rail before the US. Like that's actually even my prediction. Like the US is so damn big, we should have high speed rail like and and but because it's like we're so obsessed with like the free market and the government doesn't do like big, you know, the US government, you know, since, since since they built the highway system like, which is like what, the 30s or something.

Ed 00:15:41 20s and 30s like the US government doesn't do big giant, massive infrastructure projects. Right? but Thailand does. And so I'm, I and so I think they've already started, like at least one segment of the high speed rail. So I think this is going to happen and I'm, I'm all for it. Like the bottom line is, you know, we've talked about how we like to take the overnight train up to Shanghai, but man, wouldn't it be cool to like, zip up there in 2 hours or 3 hours? I don't know what it would be like three hours, like, I don't know what it would be, but it'd be pretty cool to zip up there. It would be.

Greg 00:16:13 Great. Yeah. Well they've they've they've they've opened. like, my friend just took a high speed line in Laos, from Luang Prabang to Vientiane. And, you know, that's a true.

Ed 00:16:24 A true, a true high speed.

Greg 00:16:26 High speed line built by the Chinese. Yeah. And oh, shit, that's eventually going to reach from, Kunming, I think, all the way down to Singapore.

Greg 00:16:35 right.

Ed 00:16:36 I think I read about this planet. I love it, man. Yeah, I hope it happens.

Greg 00:16:38 I think I think Thailand will because they have no other choice. If they don't, then, you know, the other people that are building the high speed rails, like the Chinese are just going to be like, well, we'll just we'll just zag around Thailand through Cambodia here and you'll get zero of the benefits. So I think they have to it's do or die at this point.

Ed 00:16:55 Yeah. So this is one of the few things, I don't know I don't I don't want to say few, but I'm actually optimistic about this one. I think it's, it's it's already happening and I think it will happen.

Greg 00:17:06 Me too. Me too. Yeah I agree.

Ed 00:17:09 All right. Oh, okay. I got a question for you. This is a little more specific, but, it's still near and dear to my heart. it's about the future of Nano Plaza. Do you think Nano Plaza will survive, or do you expect it to be demolished like almost everything else and replaced with, like, a mall or condo?

Greg 00:17:31 Man, this is a great question.

Greg 00:17:32 I've thought I've I've noodled over this for years because it's it's it's a really interesting question to me because it's, it's it's economic, it's political. It's gray market. It's, you know, it's it's real estate. So for those who don't know, Nano Plaza is sort of on the corner of Sukhumvit Soi four. and it's like the famous adult entertainment plaza, and it's this big three story courtyard full of bars where rumor has it, some pretty titillating stuff goes on. but it's it's been such an iconic location for so many years, and it must be raking in so much money.

Ed 00:18:14 But I'm guessing I want to. I wonder if, you know, it's funny. I was I'm much older now. In the early days I did I did spend time at Nana, but, man, I haven't been there in a while. Like, there's something, you know, Covid, I think Covid Covid killed a lot of the red light districts in Bangkok. And, I don't know if how much they've recovered, like, I really don't know, like has Nana is not even busy these days.

Ed 00:18:42 I have no idea.

Greg 00:18:43 Well, I think I mentioned on a previous, bonus show a few months ago, I happened to be walking home past that area and I stopped in, real quick. Didn't stay too long. It was more of the same. Nothing to my eyes had changed really that much? It was. But it wasn't.

Ed 00:18:58 It wasn't. It wasn't empty.

Greg 00:19:00 It wasn't empty, but it wasn't booming. Although I wasn't there, it wasn't late or anything, but still it was open and it was busy. But, I just think that that that stretch of, of Lower Sukhumvit, eventually the land prices will just get too high and it'll be like, well, we can make more money by building a 60 storey condo than we can by having a three storey fun house, you know? so Research plans. I think eventually the economic forces are just going to say, sorry, you're no longer bring to the table what you used to.

Ed 00:19:36 Yeah. This is an interesting question. I, I just don't know enough about real estate.

Ed 00:19:40 In Bangkok, real estate is just so odd because even in even in totally prime areas, there will still be undeveloped land. And I can never figure it out. I always assume it's just wealthy people who are so wealthy that they're not even maximizing the potential, like they're just sitting on sweet real estate. So I'm guessing that the, you know, I think Nona Plaza is, is owned by the Nona family. Like, I think that's the actual last name. Like, they, you know, they must own the land and. Yeah. Yeah. And and you're right, they're obviously making a bundle, but but yeah. With, with like a giant office tower or condo, they probably could, could make more I guess. Or a.

Greg 00:20:22 Mall. It's going to be, it would be the only mall between between Paragon and Terminal 21, the only big mall. Yeah, yeah. direct Skytrain access. Those are pretty tantalizing selling features.

Ed 00:20:34 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, if I had $1 billion, I'd make him an offer.

Greg 00:20:39 Yeah. Me too. I think it'll happen eventually. Although I don't know when I'll say another ten years. Within ten years.

Ed 00:20:45 But you haven't heard any rumors about it happening, have you? No, it's just speculation.

Greg 00:20:48 Just speculation. Pure speculation based on absolutely nothing.

Ed 00:20:52 Gotcha, gotcha.

Greg 00:20:53 Okay. Yeah. All right. I got my last question for you. All right. And this is this. This is right up your alley. You're gonna you're going to dig into this one, I think, with all your teeth. Yeah. will a non-military political party, a non-military political party in Thailand ever survive dissolution?

Ed 00:21:14 Ooh, yeah. This is, at least up my alley. I want it to be up my alley. You know, we talked about this just we talked about the our new prime minister a little bit on the Boehner bonus show and I am trying to up my my tie politics game. And man, there's weird stuff going on right now. There is, you know, with Prime Minister getting getting booted and then now we have, former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra daughter Patong turn as the prime minister.

Ed 00:21:45 It's just a very weird situation. and then, just very recently, I think it was announced yesterday that, put high has kicked the military party out of the coalition. The ruling party coalition, which, that has not happened for for ten years, you know, since. So since the 2014 coup, the military has been part of the either controlling the government or part of the ruling coalition.

Greg 00:22:14 Right. So for, for for listeners that need a little bit of background just really quickly, traditionally the civilian political parties. If they get a little bit too uppity or start biting off a bit more than they can chew. Traditionally, it's always been a bit of a handy trick for someone to find some law somewhere that they've broken and say, sorry, you're dissolved and everyone is banned from politics, leaving the military to step in. And yeah, so what?

Ed 00:22:39 2 to 2 different versions of of toxins. Parties have been dissolved before, and then two different versions of progressive parties have been dissolved.

Greg 00:22:52 Within the last few years.

Ed 00:22:54 Yeah, yeah. and and now now that, put II has apparently pushed the military out of the ruling coalition. And it's normally the Constitutional Court is seen as this conservative force that is allied with the military. Maybe there's a non-military party that could survive. Maybe. You know, the Democrats are the old traditional party, also conservative, but they're very weak right now, so I don't think they're going to get back into power. So so the question does it kind of doesn't even apply to them. So so basically, you know, they've dissolved two progressive parties. So they're willing to do that. And they've actually dissolved two versions of toxins parties. So the short answer is will a non-military party ever survive. No. You know, these will not survive. Like I'm always waiting for the for the point where Thai politics turns some corner and we're not and we're not repeating a cycle, you know, it's like. And I've been waiting for this for, like, a long time. like I remember when when toxin.

Ed 00:24:00 When toxin got re-elected in 2004, I was like, okay, things are going to be different now. I can do that. Before I thought things are going to be different, right? You know, and so.

Greg 00:24:10 So young, so nice. That's right. Sweet summer.

Ed 00:24:13 So I think you I think you you're a fool. It's foolish to think that poetry is going to survive it. I mean, they might like, maybe we've turned some kind of corner, but with what the Constitution Court has recently done and what they've done in the past. It's like, I don't I don't think the current prime minister is going to survive now. I'm not saying it's going to happen like in the next six months, but to me, like the smart money, the smart bet has to be that, the current prime minister or party, this version of the party won't survive two years.

Greg 00:24:50 Interesting. But do you think that.

Ed 00:24:52 You have to bet? I think you have to bet that.

Greg 00:24:54 Do you think that the old guards in charge will eventually come around and sense the anger and the, the, the tension underneath the surface of the general populace, which they've traditionally sort of seemed to not really care about.

Greg 00:25:08 Do you think they'll someone will be like, hey, look, if we continue down this path, something's going to explode.

Ed 00:25:13 I don't know, man. I mean, I don't know how I don't know how things are going to change because the old guard, you know, okay. Very specific people who I don't want to mention very specific generals, they're literally getting too old. I mean, right, but but you know, what happens in the past that there's always like the next generation of military people. So it's like the, you know, so the old the really old guys now are in their like late 70s, but I'm sure there's guys in their like early 60s that, you know, are ready to, to, to do the same thing. so I don't know, you know, it's like I've, you know, I've talked delicately with my students about some of this and, I'm, I'm at a loss for, like, how Thai politics are going to get fixed.

Greg 00:25:58 Yeah. I don't think anyone knows that.

Ed 00:26:00 Yeah, I'm. I'm at a loss, but, I think you I think you kind of have to bet that, the current prime minister is not going to survive. Like, it's just that's just the smart bet that I don't I don't see I mean, you can always, like, take a chance and say no. They've turned a corner. She'll survive. More power to you. I hope she does. I don't support coups. And I don't support, coups by the Constitution Court either. To me, it's just another version of the same thing. You know, you can't. You know, the bottom line is, I believe in the rule of law, but it's a bit silly for the court on a technicality to, like, overrule the will of millions of people. Yeah, well, it just doesn't make sense.

Greg 00:26:42 Yeah, that's what I'm thinking is going to be eventually the the millions of people will be like, actually, we're in charge. Yeah. But, yeah.

Ed 00:26:50 So a, I guess somewhat depressing, but I guess my answer is just is no, I don't think I don't think it's going to survive.

Ed 00:26:58 All right, I got one more for you. All right. another question, actually, about about Sukhumvit. we've talked about, like, big mall culture, right? In Bangkok. They keep building new ones. but my my last question for you is going to be what which which of the big models that already exist, which is the first one do you think is going to get scrapped.

Greg 00:27:25 Like.

Ed 00:27:26 Or maybe rebuild, which is the first one that that they're going to give up on.

Greg 00:27:31 Interesting one. You know, it's funny because I'm generally broadly pro mall up to a point. we've talked about it before. When you have a kid, that whole math changes about the usefulness of malls. That's right. But, if you if you get away from Sukhumvit, Bangkok actually doesn't have that many giant malls. Like on on my side of the River Thornbury, there's Iconsiam and that's it for, you know, kilometers and kilometers. There's nothing so. Right, right. but of course, Sukhumvit is sort of saturated and now it's spreading out down to Rama four and Silom area.

Ed 00:28:11 It's weird because like, like Central World, it was kind of old and beat, but then they did a massive remodeling.

Greg 00:28:19 Well, this is funny because Central World, for those who don't remember it used to be called World Trade Center and it used it was a terrible mall. It was a dark, dingy maze of shitty stores. It was a really awful experience, but huge but huge, huge. And then they closed it down for like a full year and completely refurbished it inside and outside and expanded it and, and, now it's a great mall. But I remember when it opened, they had a thing at the Foreign Correspondents Club, a discussion about it. And I think the stat that came up was actually like, it's going to need like three or 8 or 20 or whatever it was. 747 is full of people every day just to remain profitable. And people laughed. They thought there was no way this is going to survive, right? And now it's booming. Right. central embassy is the probably the one of the newest.

Ed 00:29:09 Oh, that is what that's that's the one that's seems to be least populated.

Greg 00:29:12 Yeah. And if people joke about it and call it central empty. and I've, I've posed that question to people before, like, when are they going to pull the plug and just admit that it's not really that popular? But they said they can't. They won't. The central group that owns it, they would never do that. They're just going to keep it open. They have to keep it. It's still.

Ed 00:29:28 Pretty new. It's still pretty new.

Greg 00:29:30 Well, yeah. But then you've got it's not beat.

Ed 00:29:33 It's not beat.

Greg 00:29:34 It's it's not beat. It's it's a nice mall too. But but it's just it's kind of awkwardly located on Sukhumvit. It's difficult to get to That's right. But my prediction actually is, Emporium. I think Emporium is going to be knocked down and rebuilt because just across the street from Emporium you have M Quartier, which was only, you know, six, eight years ago. And then just across the park from them, you have M sphere, which just opened a few months ago.

Greg 00:30:01 So Emporium I used to go to that when I first got to Thailand 23 years ago. It's kind of old, old and in Krusty now, right?

Ed 00:30:10 Interesting. That's interesting. I mean, it's, They've done some remodeling inside, but you're right. Like, now that they have, like, these two new suite malls.

Greg 00:30:20 Look what they did with the Dusit Thani on the corner of Ramaphosa and Silom. They knocked the whole thing down. And they're going to build the Dusit Thani. They're just going to rebuild it. Right. You know.

Ed 00:30:29 This is an interesting that's an interesting approach. I mean, out of the three Emporium, it's just it's just worse. You know, even though they've done renovations on the inside, you know, it's all connected, you know, and you can walk around. It reminds me of the demolish it.

Greg 00:30:46 It reminds me of the World Trade Center. It's an it's a bit better. Not as bad, but, you know, it's a nice mall, but it's not spacious and airy and bright.

Greg 00:30:56 It's a little bit kind of old.

Ed 00:30:59 That's agreed.

Greg 00:31:00 No, agreed. So I think that's great. The first one to go.

Ed 00:31:03 interesting. Interesting. I mean, I would love to see the numbers on on m sphere. I think m sphere is cool, but, every time I've gone there, it's been like moderately busy. But other than the first week or two when it was slammed, every time I go there, it's it's not that busy. And then I remember, I remember when they first opened, they really promoted that they were going to have 24 hour food core, 24 hour grocery store, and then it's not like it closes at midnight now.

Greg 00:31:37 Oh yeah. Yeah, the food floor, the first and second floors are usually pretty busy, but up above that it's pretty, pretty anemic. And they've always been like, oh, we've got this huge concert hall. I'm like, great, where are the concerts? I haven't seen it. That's right, that's right.

Ed 00:31:51 So I wonder if I wonder if that, whatever, whatever you want to call that Middle Sukhumvit or Upper Sukha.

Ed 00:31:57 It's not quite Upper Sukhumvit, but I wonder if it's oversaturated. Maybe. Maybe three malls right next to each other is just too much.

Greg 00:32:07 I'm still bitter because my sphere was built on the site of the old Dubliner. You know the. That's right. The late, great Dubliner. One of the best best old pubs in Bangkok which I used to love going to but R.I.P.. Agreed anyway. Agreed. Yeah. All right. Well that's interesting. That's, those are our our little hyper, hypothetical, fortune telling predictions, best guesses about the future of certain elements of Bangkok. And, write in. Let us know if you agree or disagree or if you have your own spins on those. But that was fun. It was a fun for listeners.

Ed 00:32:39 Listeners. You can just you can you can bury this episode in a bottle, like bury it in the sand. And then in 50 years and 50 years, dig up this episode. That's right. And then let us know. Let us know how we did, because.

Greg 00:32:49 We all know the first rule of the internet. Once it's on the internet, it disappears and no one ever sees it again.

Ed 00:32:54 That's right, that's right.

Greg 00:32:56 All right, let's do something we call would you rather, where one of us picks two contrasting situations tied to Thailand to debate and choose which one we'd prefer. So, Ed, this year, I believe you volunteered for the hot seat.

Ed 00:33:09 Yeah, I got some interesting for you. recently, we, we celebrated our buddy Scott's birthday. and, I wasn't able to do the bike ride, but you did a classic, bike ride that we've gone on many times out to gawk at and, and chit beer. so it made me wonder. I used to bike back home in the States, and I'm sure you've done at least a little biking back in Canada when you were, like a wee lad.

Greg 00:33:39 Yeah. Not enough, but,

Ed 00:33:41 Yeah. And plus, where you came from was kind of semi-rural. I pictured was like, you probably could take long bike ride country bike rides if you wanted to, right?

Greg 00:33:49 Oh, dude.

Greg 00:33:50 In, like, junior high in high school summer vacation. I was on my bike in the morning. I didn't come back until the sun went down at, like 9 p.m.. Yeah, on the bike all day.

Ed 00:34:00 Okay. Would you rather do a Bangkok ride similar to you know what, what what you've done recently here in Thailand. Or would you rather do do the more open air outside of the city country riding that you could do back home?

Greg 3 00:34:18 Oh man, the.

Ed 00:34:19 Calgary ride, the Calgary ride versus the Bangkok ride.

Greg 00:34:25 I know what side I'm going to come down on it. It kind of hurts. Yeah. On one hand, I mean, riding in Bangkok is fun. it's way more interesting than riding in Canada. You you have the craziest routes. You see the weirdest stuff. You meet the most interesting people. There's just endless opportunities for for photographs. you know, a similar ride in Canada is quite boring. You've got nice bike paths, but they usually don't go by anything super, super interesting unless you're out in the mountains or something.

Greg 00:35:04 of course, the weather in Canada is much nicer. The weather here makes it a bit difficult. Sometimes. If it's too hot.

Ed 00:35:09 It's probably safer. It's very safer in Canada, right?

Greg 00:35:12 Safer? Yeah. But here it's it's a bit more dangerous. But again, it's also much more interesting culturally. Historically. But I think I'm going to have to give the edge to Canada. Interesting. Yeah. And the only reason they say that is because it is a bit more boring. And there's not not a lot to see, but it's just a different type of riding one. The bike rides that we do in Thailand or like social rides or exploration rides to that in Canada. It's more of like a fitness distance kind of ride, you know?

Ed 00:35:45 Well, there's something to be said, for if it, you know, it's cooler and you're, you're kind of out in the country. You don't have to be like in the hardcore country, but you're kind of kind of that open road bike ride when the weather is nice and you're not stressed out about traffic or going over bumps and bumps and potholes, there is something to be said about that.

Ed 00:36:10 Like, you can experience that in Thailand. Like, you know, if you're outside the city or if you're if you're down south. I know you've done some rides, like, you know, outside of Bangkok, so you can experience that here. But there is something like freeing about that. Like the weird thing about our rides in Bangkok is, you don't you don't get that feeling of, like, freedom. No. Because you're you're like stopping, stopping and turning and going down a narrow path, going down a narrow pathway. And like, avoiding this bump and, you know, carrying your bike over like a, like a, like something in the way, you know. Yeah.

Greg 00:36:43 Like crossing a klong on a tree branch bridge or something like that. And I like that. That's fun and adventurous. But I think ultimately I would prefer being able to just not put my feet on the ground for two hours. You know and know that I'm not going to be stressed out about a car cutting me off or, you know, a dog chasing me or something.

Ed 00:37:07 You know, like the speed, the speed and freedom of of like a semi country ride if the weather's nice. I kind of agree, I think I agree with you. It's kind of. Yeah. That experience is kind of untouchable and like and, and our Bangkok rides, it really is a totally different thing.

Greg 00:37:24 Completely different. It's not as exciting. But in Bangkok you never come back from a a ride. Relaxed, relaxed. You always come back wiped out. But from riding Canada you'd be like that was great. I got some exercise, got some silence, got some clean air. That's not going to happen in town here.

Ed 00:37:43 All right. I think I'd probably I think I'd probably agree with that, although I do I do love the Bangkok rides, but it is a different animal.

Greg 3 00:37:50 Totally totally good one.

Ed 00:37:53 Alrighty, a final thanks to our patrons who support the show. Patrons get a ton of cool perks and the warm, fuzzy feeling knowing that they're helping and are never ending.

Ed 00:38:01 Quest for cool content. Find out more by clicking support on our website and connect with us online or Bangkok podcasts on social media. Bangkok podcast. Com on the web or simply Bangkok Podcast at gmail.com. We love hearing from our listeners and always reply to our messages right on.

Greg 00:38:23 You can also listen to each episode on YouTube, send us a voicemail through our website, will feature on the show. Hit me up on threads at UK. Greg. Thanks for listening everyone. Hope you're doing well and we'll see you back here next week for sure.